Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

I think the withdrawal of care may well be pushed back - I have not come across use of this convention before, but reading what lawyers who are familiar with it say, that’s why I expect to happen. However the question is for how long. I don’t think the English courts can set a timetable for a decision from the UN in the sense of ordering a decision by a certain date, but can I suppose achieve the same thing by saying postpone withdrawal till such and such a date to allow and investigation.

it will be interesting to see though, as the courts have quite rightly been clear that from Archie’s point of view, this is urgent.

The plus side of having an 11 AM hearing is that it means that there are less likely to be people turning up at the hospital to protest as they will be sitting at home in the belief that the UN is about to act and that life support will not end.

Bearing in mind these “army” types aren’t the brightest bulbs in the box, so they won’t act and turn up (assuming many of them do), until they feel that things are moving forward.

As things were at the weekend it’s likely that some would have travelled there this morning to protest, or whatever they had planned. With a court hearing now they’ll hold off, by which time it will be too late and the life support will have been withdrawn.

And then they’ll forget all about it and remain poised for the next victim.

I think if the withdrawal of treatment is pushed back then it will be done so indefinitely, and that will be the end of it and they will have to care for Archie until his heart stops beating, however many weeks/months/years that could take.

This can only go one of two ways. Either they order the treatment to continue which essentially passes control of our courts to the UN, or they find that the UN has no jurisdiction in which case they order the withdrawal of treatment.

From the country, and our future legal prospects’ point of view it needs to be the latter. To give the UN jurisdiction in this case is to set an enormous precedent.

I can't see them deciding to keep him on the ventilator indefinitely. That would set a dangerous precident. Everyone will then be wanting their loved ones kept on life support 'just in case' the NHS is on its knees as it is, without filling ICU with people who have no hope of recovery. As cruel as that sounds.

@BongoJim would you possibly be able to link to the articles about school? I would be very interested but have googled and cannot find

@BongoJim I take it you have very limited understanding of the SEND system in this country - perhaps you'd like to pop over to the SEN forum here and tell us where we are all going wrong?

How can you possibly judge this woman on her son's challenging behaviour (apparently, I haven't dug back into his past) based on headlines. Do you know how many kids are out of school or not accessing the correct support?

My heart goes out to Hollie, it really does.

I think the majority of posts here have been quite respectful of her albeit disagreeing with her actions.

Whichever way this happened (challenge, suicide, her charging her phone, being gone 40mins) she has been the one to find him, to attempt to resuscitate him and the impact of that on her will be severe. I completely understand her clinging onto hope in the early days - I think that's reasonable - and I can see that (possibly) the way some information has been imparted to her at the beginning has caused her to lose trust, then the CLC and the army coming in have worsened it and now here we are.

If you genuinely believed for whatever reason that the doctors were lying to you you would fight tooth and nail. It's also very difficult to see the deterioration when it's bit by bit in front of you.

I suspect that she will look back on this with regret further down the line but I can understand how and why she got here.

I hope Archies passing is peaceful for him and his family and I especially hope Hollie finds a way to come to terms with it all.

I'm not judging the woman. I'm taking into account there is a back story.

I'm sure you are capable of doing you're own research.

The backstory is indeed complex, but atm we need to be careful discussing it here because this could result in the thread being withdrawn.

There is 0 doubt the backstory will all emerge as part of the inquest though.

Of course, I'm sure you are right. I'm just interested in a larger picture which could very well explain how the situation arrived at its current destination, some of which has already been posted on the previous threads.

What I will say though is that by this story being so public Holly has exposed herself massively and made it inevitable that her past would become public knowledge and held against her in some quarters.

The downside of seeking publicity is that you lose control of what kind of publicity that is going to be.

@BongoJim and I asked politely and everything

I fear it'll be horrendous at the end with police needing to restrain the mum etc. just awful 😞

@TankFlyBoss · threads and posts have been pulled for posting google links, elaborating on details or making reference to where details can be found.

Which is likely why OP couldn’t elaborate any further.

I've been reading these threads for a while and they've been really interesting in terms of ethics, medical care and so on. Please can we refrain from discussing mum's background and refrain from implying anything. The woman is in hell. Whatever her actions, her son is her world. Whatever happens today, let's not lower ourselves to bringing up her son's history, he is a child.

Literally no evidence to believe that except one meme shared here of Kermit. Why make things sound worse than they are?

I'm sure you are capable of doing you're own research

The poster said they'd tried.

I think as people are making accusations of things in the media it's fair enough to link.

I agree the send process fails many children and I'd be interested to know the background as I know she fought for send provision and I've been there and get the all consuming feeling that gives you.

She's literally accused the hospital of murdering/executing her son. I think that is evidence enough that she's not a reasonable person to deal with.

she cannot hear what the clinicians are saying i fear

i dont think we should judge why he wasnt in school,
it is not the time or the place @BongoJim

Sadly Archie's court case is and will be a major legal precedent, so understanding this process and the subsequent final outcome will be in the public interest, as much as the family should also be given privacy.

I've posted this before, but sadly much loved and treasured children die every day due to illness or injury, so it seems unfair to me that so many resources are being used on this one child when there is no hope of recovery. I'd understand the parents if Archie's actions/accidents was recent, but he hasn't regained consciousness since April! I had a baby in April so I understand this timeline pretty well.

It's time to let him go and look at the legal system to prevent something like this from happening again.

I don't want to get the thread closed.

The whole point of online challenges is that they need to be filmed so that the video can be posted online. Reports are that Archie didn't have a phone with him, which would seem to rule that out.