Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

@Perplexed0522
You asked why Archie is still looking (relatively) healthy. His brain has been deprived of oxygen, then blood flow. His body still has blood flow. So his skin, etc., is still getting oxygen via the blood. Unfortunately, the brain isn't getting anything, and that's why they are having to replace all the hormones.

There is a picture tonight with Archie having very flushed cheeks. Someone asked if he had a fever, but that message seems to be gone now.

Where are we at, have the high court come back or is that waiting til tomorrow morning?

I could be totally wrong, but I get the distinct impression that HD is someone who was ALWAYS going to be combative and obstructive in the face of people telling her things she didn't want to hear.

She thinks the letter outlining what steps the hospital will go through when they with draw life support is 'exercuting' (sic) her son and lacks compassion - I read that letter and thought (bar the typos which were a shame) it was very clear, easy to understand and as compassionate as it is possible to be when spelling out a process like that.

Given hospitals do have to be clear when they think there is no chance of preserving life, and they do have to ask about organ donation, there was NEVER a chance that this wasn't going to go to court, because simply stating facts and asking that question was going to tip HD over the edge and into 'you want to kill my child, I am going to fight you'.

Is there a better way to couch that news or ask that question? Are hospital staff getting that wrong often, or at all... or is there no way around it?

I wasn't asked when my mother died, I offered before anyone had the chance but they didn't want her 63 year old drink sozzled 'been on the floor 3 days barely concious' organs (and I don't blame them but I don't know the finer points so I offered), so I have little idea beyond TV dramas (so, effectively no idea) how that is done.

From what I've read, the brain dead can still experience fever? I see she's still insisting on the news that there was a UN injunction, not a request.

I think these threads are a disgrace, it is ghoulish and insensitive for strangers to be making remarks about a family who are going through hell. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

So... why did you open it then?

Bye then

I found this whole story so utterly heartbreaking. More needs to be said about this online game that caused it. Will anyone be held responsible? It's truly horrific.

He's laid on a towel , he might've been swapped sides from lieing on the right side to left .
Towel might be bulkier or rougher than a pillowcase (though why's he on a towel unless he's sweating? Or just bathed ?)

It appears the online game thing only came from one source, the mother. I understand Tiktok have already said they will persue legal action against TV companies if interviews keep repeating this unsubstantiated claim.

At the moment no because at the moment there isn't any proof of it being a game. Think the whole Tik tok bit was also mentioned on a programme possibly this Morning and they had to issue a apology or something

It's a very important case. It's emotive but it's important . If you can't handle that you don't need to be on here

PMK

And you may have a point if that family had asked for privacy and not plastered their version of events all over the media & social media, with pictures of their child on SM, not to mention accusing various member of the medical profession and judiciary of being 'murderers' and 'executioners' etc etc. You may think us ghoulish and insensitive but what would you call the actions and remarks of Archies mother, not to mention Archie's Army - which it doesn't seem she has asked any point to shut up or leave them alone?

It's in the news and as you say is an important case because of the multiple legal challenges. This could impact on many other situations potentially. Not all for the greater good I fear...

@Lougle I believe when you gone you look flushed.

Hopefully Hollie and Paul will not be expected to attend court tomorrow and will spend the time with Archie and not feel the need to make loads of SM Tweets or photos .

They will hopefully put themselves in a virtual 'bubble ' and shut out the rest of the world

*cone.

I always wonder how these cases , Alfie Evans, Charlie Guard etc go so far as they do. Why parents take this as far.

Iv been a social worker for years and as such have taken histories from 100’s of people and families and sadly children dying isn’t as uncommon as one may think, but mostly (these extreme cases excluded) people trust professionals and accept the heartbreaking truth. And trust me, where children are concerns health care professionals are often over zealous in my opinion.

Are the parents different, and how so? Maybe different personality traits?

Perhaps just the wrong parents at the wrong time. I suppose a lot could be not wanting to let go of hope but in this case I think it has moved way beyond that. I think this has become more of a personal crusade for the mother noting the memes and things she is posting on social media. It's worth pointing out there is a background of the mother going to extraordinary lengths to gain publicity in the past with other issues she has taken up the gauntlet with.

According to Sky News there's a virtual court of appeal hearing at 11am tomorrow.

It is a case that the family have chosen to push into the public domain.

It seems unwise to only allow the family to speak about it, and I think it is important that misinformation surrounding it is robustly challenged, given that it has the potential to impact everyone (people being scared to take their child to hospital, removing themselves from the organ donor register, raising suspicion of NHS health workers) @AnotherDayAnotherView . I think it's also important that people are aware of the CLC, their anti-choice and "pro-life" policies, and how they exploit families at their most vulnerable.

From a medical ethics point of view, these cases will affect people and lead to discussion.

As I've said on the previous thread, my thoughts are with the family and with Archie, and I find it really upsetting there has been such a breakdown in the relationship with the hospital (precipitated by the CLC).

The court of appeal didn't look too kindly upon the family's delaying tactics last time. But I do think it might be wise to let all the legal stuff get finalised so the family know they've exhausted every avenue before Archie's life support is removed. They're much more likely to accept it then, and I doubt it will take very long for the UN (and, inevitably, the ECHR) to dismiss the case.

So the court of appeal already rejected a further hearing and is now going to hold a virtual hearing in the morning. Anyone any experience with this at all?

@bellamountain when Archie passes away there will be an inquest which will look at all the evidence to work out why he died. I feel very sorry for the Coroner who hears the case.