Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

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There was a recent post stating that she’s asked Archie’s 121 support at school - over the last 3 years - to be his godmother.

that does seem a lot of support although I am not in the UK, maybe it’s not that hard to access? It would be a lot for Australia

The downside of seeking publicity is that you lose control of what kind of publicity that is going to be

Accurately put, though thankfully the vast, vast majority of posts have been sensitive to what the family's going through (as seen by the deletions on heavily moderated threads being minuscule)

I do wonder, though, if those who dislike wider issues being mentioned will also object to the inquest. Obviously a legal process is very different to an online forum, but that too will be a matter of public record and there are clear parallels if the issue really is the disclosure of otherwise private information

About this alleged "blackout challenge" - I thought TikTok denied such a thing existed and had threatened lawsuits against someone on TV who suggested it did?

But googling it shows that some parents wanted to sue them when their child died as a result of exactly this

So what's going on here? Are Tiktok saying that it may have existed once but no longer does, or is it the reports about the planned case which are inaccurate?

The whole point of online challenges is that they need to be filmed so that the video can be posted online. Reports are that Archie didn't have a phone with him, which would seem to rule that out.

Yep. And TikTok have said it wasn't a challenge they saw. I'm on TikTok and I didn't see any sort of challenge around that tbh. I don't buy the TikTok challenge, I truly believe he committed suicide.

if the issue really is the disclosure of otherwise private information

The issue is uninformed posters making judgements about parents of children with SEND, those who've attempted or completed suicide and digging around for gossip. Very different to an inquest or the controlled disclosure of probate information.

Trust me no longer it's really not that easy to access support in Ms school or get your child specialist provision.

My ds was unable to even get into school due to anxiety and I still had to go to tribunal to prove he needed an ehcp to provide him support. He then got 20 hours.

If he had FT 1:1 he had significant needs and his mum probably fought tooth and nail to get that support or he had to have a lot of disrupted education.

I would imagine that would impact her ability to allow him to go. It's all consuming.

I do agree that life support needs withdrawing but can see why Miss Dance has the mindset she has right now. She's not getting that across well either which I fear isn't helping her personally - as in her approach and personality rather than her getting what she wants.

*private ^^

I do wonder, though, if those who dislike wider issues being mentioned will also object to the inquest. Obviously a legal process is very different to an online forum, but that too will be a matter of public record and there are clear parallels if the issue really is the disclosure of otherwise private informationI do wonder, though, if those who dislike wider issues being mentioned will also object to the inquest. Obviously a legal process is very different to an online forum, but that too will be a matter of public record and there are clear parallels if the issue really is the disclosure of otherwise private information I think the fact that the case garnered so much publicity in the first place means that the inquest will be widely reported on in graphic detail, and depending on the nature of the information which emerges, the same tabloids who have been printing the letters accusing Bart’s trust of murder and execution will. Change their tune as in whose side they’re on. Iyswim.

The issue is uninformed posters making judgements about parents of children with SEND, those who've attempted or completed suicide and digging around for gossip

I can partly agree with the digging around for gossip bit - though with the caveat that the family have chosen to be so free with what they share online that digging is hardly needed - but wouldn't want to assume who's "uninformed" and who's not

Often those who don't understand whatever system have been honest enough to say so, and after all we don't know people's individual circumstances well enough to assume that the issues touched on haven't affected them personally

Apologies is this has been asked elsewhere, but are life support resources limited in any way? Does prolonging it for one person potentially deprive another person, who may have a better chance of recovery, from accessing the help they need?

There's nothing private that hasn't already been disclosed by the parent as far as I'm aware. I think sometimes the wider pictures can be useful in understanding why a situation arrives at conclusions like this. That's not about judging the child or the parent. It's about taking into account more than just the bit of the story currently in the news to form a better understanding of the internal dynamics that may be at play.

Good question. I once had to wait for extremely complex surgery because the mechanical device required was the only one in the country and had to be shared between trusts. I'd imagine more life support is available given that more people may require it.

We know that beds, staff and other resources are in short supply right now. This isn't a reason not to give someone the time they need in ICU/on a ventilator, and this is evidenced by the number of patients who have this level of care for months on end if they have any chance of recovery from injury/illness (lots of references to COVID patients in the facebook group, who get "years on a ventilator"). If Archie had any prospect of recovery, his team would not be advising withdrawal of support.

He has also been having regular blood transfusions, which is ethically troubling, given that it's a finite resource also in short supply.

There are always rumours about TikTok.

I’ve read articles where children have died from the so called black out challenge.

Holding your breath until you pass out is relatively harmless. You automatically breathe again once unconscious.

Wrapping something around your throat to stop you breathing for a challenge is a lot more dangerous because there’s a chance it won’t loosen to allow you to breathe again once unconscious.

There was loads of loads in fb about this challenge. Two (that I know of) deaths of children due to this challenge.

TikTok may say it’s not on their page, but once upon a time it may have been and then banned once flagged as dangerous

I think the fact that the case garnered so much publicity in the first place means that the inquest will be widely reported on in graphic detail ...

Very possibly, yes - though knowing they produce fewer clicks, the worst dregs of the media tend to have less interest in dry legal processes than "the battle for a child's life"

But as so many have said, that's the risk you take if you choose to post intimate details all over the internet

I think if the withdrawal of treatment is pushed back then it will be done so indefinitely, and that will be the end of it and they will have to care for Archie until his heart stops beating, however many weeks/months/years that could take.

Why do you think this @MayThe4th ?

Even if the court did rule they wanted to wait for the UN to give their opinion see no reason why they wouldn't agree with the UK once they've reviewed the case. The medical evidence is overwhelming.

Also important to note the doctors caring for him have already said his life will sadly be measured in "weeks not months", a while ago, so this is not a case that can go on for much longer.

I can't work out the process... all routes in the UK were exhausted so they approached the UN.

The UN asked for nothing to change (I.e, no switching off life support) whilst they considered the situation, with the caveat that they weren't prejudging anything either way, they just needed time.

Now the Court if Appeal are hearing something [again]? What's that?

I think if any of the rumours about the family/his home life are true and come out during the inquest, this is something the dregs of the media (and sadly the public) will be very interested in.

Wishing the family peace in this final time.

I believe this hearing is to ask for the UN request to be honoured.

Right now, the hospital has said they cannot delay palliative care (i.e., what the UN has asked for), without a court order.

If the judge sides with the family, it will delay the planned withdrawal of life support which was going to be today, and give the UN time to go through the case.

@1blossomtree · because the UN haven’t put a timeframe on it. They have essentially asked the UK to delay the withdrawal of treatment while they investigate, and there is no knowing how long it will take for them to investigate.

So if the courts delay the withdrawal of treatment they won’t be able to put a time on it because they don’t have a timescale from the UN.

The UN haven't announced a timeframe no, but this is not something they will want to delay either, given the situation. I really cannot see them saying, "oh well you'll just have to wait months while we ponder on this".

I agree with pp that we can 'look forward to' a tabloid 180 degrees on this family once we're at inquest stage.

The clicks will be driven by 'revelations' about family members. It's how it always works with the tabloids and a lot of the stories are probably already written.

If the politicians REALLY want to do something to assist this family they could actually start giving a damn about the role of bandits like the CLC who have encouraged and manipulated family members to push themselves into the public eye. By being so public facing, Hollie Dance in particular might be perceived to have forfeited some rights to privacy and protection from press intrusion. She's a sitting duck. Does she really think Eamonn Holmes gives a shit about her?

Thank you @1blossomtree Im not sure I expressed my qu in the clearest way. If a patient has no prospect of recovery or survival and has no brain function, then it seems both cruel to them, and their families, as well as potentially depriving someone else of those resources who might need them in order to recover.

This Tiktok challenge definitely existed in the past.

DD said friends in school were trying the blackout challenge a couple of years ago.

There was evidence of 1000's trying these challenges.

Not saying that it happened that way with Archie but I can confirm it definitely existed.