Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

in the HC judgement, in response to her claims of breathing, they talked about how pressure changes in the tube from secretions, before suctioning , could show up on the very sensitive monitor, but they weren’t true breaths and that no one had noticed any spontaneous breaths . That discussion has been had with Hollie before. They also pointed out that when it was stopped for 2min he didn’t breathe again all.

Similarly, she states that the scans aren’t Archie’s and that no one has been able to explain to her why the scans only have 8 teeth and not 12. Again, some poor specialist painstakingly went through every image with her, with his name and number on. If you’re looking at sequential images it’s pretty obvious that some teeth are on a different plane to others, with MRI images done in slices.

She posts pictures with his “eyes open”, knowing that his lids are lifted to put drops in.

There was also that picture of a catheter draining clear urine and what looked like some faecal staining on a nearby dressing. Hollie was telling everyone it was an arterial line.

She’s an unreliable narrator at the moment, although I do understand she doesn’t want this to be over yet.

I forgot her claims that there was an injury to his back that caused paralysis with everyone missing the fracture and no one investigating it, even though his spine was imaged after presentation.

I've just read the leaflet it's interesting.
Coning must be what they meant about his brain dropping into his spine? It's gruesome, I think anyone with any kind of common sense would put an end to it there and then. It's a horror story.

Has the police investigation into what happened actually started yet? There will need to be a coroner's investigation on the back of this, to inform the inquest proceedings.

All we ever hear is one particular narrative from, as @nolongersurprised phrases it, an unreliable narrator.

I was just thinking earlier that I anticipate Hollie finding more “signs of life” this weekend

I said as much some time ago, and fully expect that there'll soon be an alleged blink, hand movement or whatever that nobody else will have witnessed, almost certainly revealed at whatever time will best delay proceedings

Whatever their motivation it really doesn't look likely that the family will stop, so I guess it'll come down to the hospital being backed by the courts in doing whatever they think best

I feel so sorry for dance and battersbee.

But I also feel so sorry for the staff. I magazine at some point having to switch off the life support against a parents wishes with them watching. The mental torture the nurses and consultants must go through whilst knowing their every move is being watched, judges and posted on SM.

I just hope the poor boys end doesn't turn into a circus performance.

Then yes, surely an inquest into the tragic circumstances of his actual death in April

"But I also feel so sorry for the staff. I magazine at some point having to switch off the life support against a parents wishes with them watching. The mental torture the nurses and consultants must go through whilst knowing their every move is being watched, judges and posted on SM"

This breaks me as the care my papa had in ICU and the switching off process, the NHS staff were absolutely incredible. So caring and they made it so dignified. It really helped us through the grieving process. They then asked if we wanted a diary of dads time in ICU. When we got it it was written like he was talking, telling us what the nurses were doing and what happened each day.

Don't tell anyone but it was during Covid and behind the curtain the nurse said take your gloves and masks off so you can hold his hand properly and kiss him. God I'm crying again now.

I cannot imagine treating these really quite incredible, special people like this.

Yes, because it was based on specific alleged events happening over the preceding weekend. It would be possible for a patient not to be breathing spontaneously one week but to have started doing so a couple of weeks later - as happened with the baby whose case was linked on the DfA page.

Sure, it would be open to them to find out that, again, it wasn't correct, but if there any sort of substance to it they would have to consider it. The family's barrister mentioned getting an independent medical view on the evidence, so I guess the most likely explanation is that they got it and it agreed with the hospital that there was no evidence of independent breathing. However, I wouldn't put it past CLC to have cobbled some sort of case together but to be holding it back so that, even if it's rubbish, it buys yet more time.

We know that the Court of Appeal quashed the previous finding that he had died because he didn't meet established criteria - and yes, I know that that is because he is essentially too dead for the preliminary peripheral nerve tests required to be workable. However, the result of that is that, as a matter of law, he isn't dead. It was noticeable that in the second CA judgment they were careful to say he was in a coma.

It flies in the face of reason that someone is "too dead" to be pronounced dead , and by the process of elimation if Archie is too dead to be dead , he's alive ?

The Court of Appeal quashed the finding that Archie had died and sent the case back to be reconsidered on the basis of best interests. A dead person cannot have best interests. The High Court reconsidered and issued a new judgment, which was upheld by the CA, to the effect that the current situation and treatment is not in Archie's best interests. It follows that in legal terms he is alive.

I don't understand how it has come to be that someone can continue to say they've seen this and that going on (breathing/eyes working) and everyone has to listen.

He's dead. There is clear evidence that his brain (and other internal organs such as his lungs) are rotting. The evidence has been given. It's not going to go back the other way. What more is there to keep saying?

I feel that at this point she could say any nonsense - like while no one was looking last night he sat up and ate a sandwich with her - and the onus is to prove he didn't. We know he didn't. He's dead!

Is anyone actually using the word around her?

It's a charade. It's bonkers!

You'll have to excuse me - I'm having one of those wtf moments even though i've followed this from the start ....

Yeah, i think you're having the same moment that i am.

It's what triggered my last post.

@Laiste · and me. I just don’t understand why they’re even giving any of this any consideration any more.

But it seems very clear that the life support is never going to be withdrawn. There will always be something else, and time and time again they’re just given more time to investigate, and then it proves fruitless, and then something else comes up, or another court, and again things are stalled.

At this point they either need to switch off the life support or just acknowledge that they’ll wait for his heart to stop beating. Because the rest is just costing more money on top of the money they’re already spending on caring for a dead body.

And while this delay continues, the police investigation and the inquest can't happen, right? Because he's 'alive' ...

The CLC will encourage the family to fight on because ultimately to them this is not about Archie, this is about changing UK law to include beating heart =life.
They are using this young boy and his family for their pro-life agenda, because they want a judgment that says beating heart = life. It's despicable, they will literally flog that child's body as long as they possibly can, to use as many legal routes as they can for their own gain. they only have to win once to set precedents.
Archie is not stable, he is emaciated and requires very powerful drugs and skilled nursing care to maintain stability, at some point his body will no longer respond to them, all the CLC care about is delaying as long as they can for their own aims.

Hollie and Archie are being used. Soon as he's gone they will be looking for their next victim case.

Latest update from Hollie.. I have no words.

I feel so sorry for her and the situation she's in, but it's not acceptable to say things like this when there's no basis in fact.

Just been handed my letter to exercute Archie on Monday as this was aired . The hospital are in too much of q rush and that's because they know he will wake up and its going to look so bad for them.
That's why their in a rush.

The poor poor staff having to deal with this woman. My heart aches for Archie, and I know she's his Mum but this is a masterclass in denial and delusion.

Even at the very end, Archie will be denied his dignity

That is just sickening. I know she’s a grieving. I know she’s not thinking rationally. I know none of this makes sense to her right now but she can’t write about executing her son. Or that the hospital are in a rush because they know he will wake up.

It’s just not on.

I just saw the latest message from Hollie on another forum. I feel so sorry for the poor staff dealing with this. It must be such a difficult situation without these types of accusations directed at them. The people egging her on should be held to account and be made to pay for all the cost associated with it (not plausible or possible I know but..)

I’ve just been looking at the Christian concern page. Wow. That place is toxic.

Yes, I think it's important to remember she's being exploited by intelligent & powerful people who are using her & Archie for their own means.

Anger needs to be directed to the CC, the CLC, and all the lawyers & medical "experts" working for them.

If you are a vulnerable person at the most desperate point in your life and had impressive sounding people fighting for you, it would be easy to get completely sucked in.

Just been handed my letter to exercute Archie on Monday as this was aired . The hospital are in too much of q rush and that's because they know he will wake up and its going to look so bad for them.
That's why their in a rush.

...His brain is literally rotting and dissolving...how can anyone grieving or not think he will wake up??? This is just make believe at this point.

How many children need those PICU services and aren't getting them because of them?

Also does this mean they will remove ventilator on Monday?

Well, if the latest posts about "the letter" are reliable, at least it suggests that the hospital have sought advice and been told it's appropriate to go ahead - I can't imagine they'd act without doing so

It won't be an especially pleasant weekend since the "Army" are already going berserk, but hopefully poor Archie can rest in peace at last. Hopefully, too, the family can move onto getting support from decent people