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MSbP, Lost Mothers 4

358 replies

Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:22

I thought it was about time we had a new thread...I felt it might be better to keep the same thread name, but I want to make it clear that it is for ALL mothers who have been seperated or lost children for what ever reason. You do not have to be accused of anything to post here, we would also be grateful if anyone comes across any articles and could just post a link to them here, so we can keep up with the news! I myself seem to miss it all, and if it were not for Mnetters posting links I would still be 'in the dark' about a lot of things. So Thankyou to all of those who have supported us.

I myself feel very privilidged to be part of such a wonderful group of mums, who have shown me nothing but support. It is 10 months ago that I first 'stumbled' across Mnet. I come here when I feel down, or need cheering up, for help and advice. I know of 5 mums who have posted on this thread due to 'false accusations' but I also am aware that there are some mums out there who read it for support and information but do not feel able to post, due to the 'gagging orders' they have placed on them.

I chose a story at 'random' but asked the person who posted it if I can repeat it here,and I feel that it highlights what so many mother's have gone through.

I would hate to think that we are a 'clique' in the world of Mumsnet because we rely on all of the mumsnetters for their help and because of that I hope that no one feels excluded from posting and that you will continue to help us as you have done in the past.

Love Bunglie XX

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Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:24

Here is a typical story, true, but unfortunately not so rare...

I lost my first child to SIDS, it took me two years before I got pregnant again and both me and my partner were so happy. I brought her back from the hospital and she had what was called an apnoea attack, I revived her and took her straight to the hospital. She was kept in for observation and the next thing I knew was that a social worker was there asking me questions about our first child. Without us knowing they took out an order, signed by a magistrate saying that I could not take my child home, the order only lasted 28 days, but in that time they consulted this Professor Meadow and my daughter was released to the care of foster parents and I was not even told where they lived or allowed to see her. When the case came to court I was told that I was a classical case of Munchausens syndrome by proxy. Nothing I had done was right. If I showed concern about her health I was over protective and obsessed, one of the symptoms. I did not have a very good lawyer and like Bunglie I thought it was all a mistake and when it came to the court hearing they would see that I was a loving mother. I was never interviewed by Professor Meadows but the court said they had to put the welfare of the child first. My little girl is now just in her teens. I do not know where she is as she was adopted. I not only grieve for my dead child but I now grieve for a daughter that will never know me and I do not know how to find her. I do not know what an 'open' adoption is, but I was never told about this. I would do anything to find my daughter and clear my name. I have never had another child because I know they would take it away. I am not educated and I trusted the people who were suposed to know about these things.
I have looked at the links and I like Bunglie am a bit anxious about contacting MAMA as they want your name and I am also not allowed to tell people about it as the Judge heard the case in a private room and you are not allowed to discuss it with people. I never did anything to hurt my kids but the strain led me to have a breakdown and I now take prozac, so I doubt that anyone would think I am a fit mother to have children in anycase. It has almost destroyed our marriage but I do not know what else there is.Thank you Bunglie and everyone for giving me the opportunity to tell my story. I know that nothing can be done and I doubt that they would re-open my case but it is good to tell someone at last.

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Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:31

Finally on the start of this thread I thought it might be an idea to post 'Aloha's' letter to her MP.

One of the most frequent questions is 'What can I do to help' Well you can tell your neighbours, you can tell anyone who you think would be interested, we need people to know that this has been happening for 15 years, and due to the Family court system we can not do this ourselves.

Finally if you really want to you can write or email your MP and/or Margaret Hodge. Because I personally feel the more aware that people are that this is happenning the sooner it can be stopped. For a sample of a letter I found Aloha's, I hope she does not mind me posting it here again, for you to see and give you an example of what to write if you do want to email or write to your MP.

I wrote something like:

Dear Ms Harman

I am a constituent of yours, and have been following the news about mothers falsely accused of murdering their children after being diagnosed with Munchhausen's Syndrome By Proxy. I strongly believe that the misguided evidence of Roy Meadows has led to thousands of miscarriages of justice, whereby mothers have been jailed or had their children unjustly taken from them. I hope that as my MP and a mother yourself, you will push to see that justice is done for all the families involved, not just those mothers who have been imprisoned. I am particularly concerned about the secrecy surrounding the family court system, which has fuelled those injustices. Women have been forbidden to discuss what has happened to them with their own families, and even with psychologists, despite their own desperate need for help. I hope you will agree that this is wrong, and that the principle of open justice must be restored with the decisions of the family courts open to scrutiny and appeal.
I enclose a message that was recently posted on an internet site for mothers (that was a version of Bunglie's posting - not the whole thread and not with Mumsnet identified, just in case). I hope you will read it and agree with me that this sort of thing must not happen again.

With best wishes

I am also going to start a 'new thread' with the online petition you can sign that if you would like.

Tankyou all, Bunglie XX

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Tania2 · 16/10/2004 12:49

Hi girls,
I first read this thread about 6 months back it took me several hours and alot of tears to get through it.
I would just like to say that i really do feel for you all, i couldn't even imagine what it would be like to loose a child and especially to false accusations made by a so called Dr that you have never met. i never posted b4 this cause i just didn't know what to say. When i first read the thread one of the girls was trying to get in contact with her teenage son and daughter I havent read the thread in a while as it made me so sad and actually quite scared to show concern to my dr if my son was ill. I really hope everything went well with her and all of you for that matter.
All the best and i will be keeping an eye out for any articles in Australia for you.
Bless you all xxxx

Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:54

Ooh Tania 2 That would be great if you could, I don't think we have any mums in Australia but it would be great to know what is going on over there with regards to 'False Accusations' as it is a world-wide problem, and I believe that in the USA now it is no longer recognised by the courts...but I am not sure of that fact but would be interested to know anything re. other countries.

Tania2 I am also of you as it must be spring or summer over there now...what is it like having christmas in the summer do you still have christmas cards with snow and robins on?

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nailpolish · 16/10/2004 12:56

i feel i want to say something but dont know what. some things that we get ourselves in a state about and worry about are so insignificant when stories like this are written. just wanted to say something. best wishes xxx

ps i will look out for petition

Tania2 · 16/10/2004 13:03

Pleasure Bunglie i will also be looking out for this petition and iam sure many other mn will be too i will mention it on the ttc thread once you have set it up.

Yes it is spring here at the moment iam in Melbourne so the weather is very unpredictable sunny one day raining the next. summer xmas is nice but sometimes its too hot to make a pig of your self at dinner. I would love to have a white xmas i could sit and eat all day with a big baggy jumber on and let it all hang out IYKWIM.
And yes all of our xmas cards still have snow and robins on them occasionally you can get the aussie summer xmas card picture a red hot sun and a man drinking beer (with the beer belly) lounging about doing nothing as usual. ha ha.

moomina · 16/10/2004 14:14

Bunglie, I've also never posted on the MSbP threads before as I have rarely known what I could possibly say that might help or give comfort. But I have read them all, bit by bit, and I am genuinely awed by the strength and resilience you and the other lost mothers have shown. So I just want to say that I would be very happy to add my signature to any petition you might start, and will also be writing to my MP. I hope this might help just a little bit.

Bunglie · 16/10/2004 14:21

The petition is there.....

And thank you all who have signed it already.

I know how you must feel as if there is nothing you can add or write after reading some of the postings on this thread. I also understand why people don't read them as they are sad, and why make yourself feel sad. So just the fact that you have taken the time to read them is lovely, but I do understand that people do not know what to post because there is nothing they can really say.

Your support is enough, but your words are wonderful...thank you

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Bunglie · 16/10/2004 17:31

SenoraPostraphe (sp) - Thank you for offerring to take around the and the other mums are real 'stars' in my eyes.

With regard to emailing verses posting to an MP, I remember in the past we did have problems as MP's were not responding to emails. However I have since discovered that you have to put your name and address on them before it gets passed on, but even then there is no certainty, so you are correct.
Therefore what I do, and I think some others have done, is to email and then print off a hard copy and post it. That way they certainly should get it and with any luck they will get it twice.

If you do not know your MP's email address I seem to recall that someone (Possibly Janh or Lunarsea) posted a link to a site called MP locator, which gave all the details....I will see if I can find it again, but it was a while back and it might have been in one of the threads that have now been deleted.

Many thanks again to you, and to everyone who has signed the petition, I just thought perhaps I should put a link to it, so HERE is the petition thread

Love Bunglie XX

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InnKogNeeToe · 16/10/2004 20:58

Bunglie, just wondring if you recieved my email?

Hi to all new and old..

take care and be safe all

sobeit · 17/10/2004 03:13


This is how we sent our letters. Hopes this helps.

Bunglie · 17/10/2004 12:16

Sorry Incogkneetoe, Yes I did get it and it was really lovely....I meant to send you a reply with an attachment of the 'word' document you sent me, only a revised version, but have not had time...but I will as I am sure all the mums here would love to read it, and see how it can affect a child. (email should be with you shortly!)

For those of you who are feeling a bit puzzled...Incogneetoe sent me something which I would love to share with you, but I need to change some names and dates etc so no one can be identified. I then need to send it back to Inkogkneetoe for her aproval, and maybe she would rather post it.

It explains how this can affect children as well as parents and it is worth reading...but as I said I need Icogkneetoes 'go ahead' and to change the info, so you do not know the names or places due to 'gagging orders' etc.

Sobeit thank you for the link....did you get a reply saying that they had received your email??

I can not believe how many of you have signed the are all wonderful...thankyou.

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PicadillyCircus · 17/10/2004 13:34

Bungle, I've read most of MSBP 3 and it made me so sad and cross at the "authorities" who think they know best .

You and the other women like you are amazing and I just wanted you to know it

Bunglie · 17/10/2004 14:47

Thank you Picadiily...

Sobeit...may I ask if you ever used the missing persons help line...and the phone home fascility, I am not sure who runs it but I have seen a poster for it and wondered if it is an oranisation worth publising or finding out more about?

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sobeit · 17/10/2004 15:21

Sobeit thank you for the link....did you get a reply saying that they had received your email??

I got back this message today > Sorry, but we've not managed to fax your message to

Rest assured that we don't give up easily; our automated
system has made 20 attempts to send your fax.

Not to worry, We will post it Monday, and also to a few more people. 6 of us have signed it as we live in the same area, all have added their addresses.

InnKogNeeToe · 17/10/2004 22:36

Hi Everyone

Im not sure how to do the link thingy so instead here is the site addy to an international magazine article on MSBP,

the article is titled: Justice Out Of Balance.

Just thought you'd like a read, it has info about other countries dealing with the same issues as the UK.

Take care and be safe all

Bunglie · 18/10/2004 09:02

Thanks IKNT (sorry but I can't type it all!)

Here is the Link

I have never heard of Nexus, does anyone else get a copy of it?

The article is likening accused mother's trial to the 'Witch trials' a very apt similie or is it synonym, (oh how I wish I had listened in those english lessons at school!)

It is called 'Justice out of Balance'. It summarizes the situation really well and shows how it is not just one of the states in the US who have rejected it but also in Australia. It seems as if the UK is well behind!

Thanks again IKNT, It is a great article and wow! our little corner is truelly becoming International as I see that it is available in many countries like Japan and Croatia, but not the UK! But, I guess it is available on the web so thanks for that bit of research IKNT.

I just think that it is a shame that it is in a magazine that deals with government conspiracies and UFO's! IYKWIM. But then I guess it must seem like a Government conspiracy the way it has been 'covered -up'.

I still do not understand why it is something that Paediatricians diagnose and not Psychiatrists???

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Bunglie · 18/10/2004 09:04

Sobeit you are a 'STAR'

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sleeplessmumof2 · 18/10/2004 10:46

ok bunglie, time to think of a new subject to head the petition under, so we can attract more people to sign. How about,

Long threads you'd love to understand but dont have time!!!

short version of lost mothers thread, PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION!!!!

any other suggestions???

Also think it should be posted onto other sites, what do you think??

MummyToSteven · 18/10/2004 10:57

Hi IKNT - thank you very much for posting that fascinating article from Nexus. Now I just need to find the time to follow the links to the report by Helen Hayward which I think would be very interesting reading. I thought the article was very well written/presented.

Bunglie · 18/10/2004 13:48

Slleplessmumof2....I am just 'stunned' at the response....

I think your ideas are great but unfortunately I can not do it today as I have a hospital appt. in about 20 minutes....I like the shorter one I think...what do you think?

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Tania2 · 18/10/2004 14:06

Girls i have let the girls on the ttc thread know about the petition i think some of them have signed. But if you get the chance maybe one of you could paste a short story in and then ask them to sign it. Just an idea!!


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sleeplessmumof2 · 18/10/2004 16:38

bunglie, hope the appointment went well, i agree the short version sounds good with MSBP in CAPITALS (TO SHOUT AT PEOPLE!!!) but we need to have a short abridged (if poss) rendition of the cases and situations!!!

As im on a crusade for you at the moment when i get a chance i shall write you a little piece as as have seen it from the side lines and i will email it to you via janh (she's still your p.a. i guess!!) and you can decide what to do with it!!

Pleased to be of a tiny bit of help!!

Bunglie · 18/10/2004 20:06

IKNT - email coming your way in the morning....
I am a bit tired so will catch up in the morning, my hosp appt. was not too bad but it could have been better!

Perhaps I should get gypsy Cody to read my tea leaves...I need some good news. I guess I am just tired.

Thank you ALL so much again...I know that is all I ever seem to post, but I would thank you all so much more if I could find the words....

And yes, Janh is my wonderful P.A. still! (and I want her to adopt me too as I want her as my Mummy to keep me on the 'straight and narrow')

OP posts:
sleeplessmumof2 · 20/10/2004 11:12

check this article out ladies who are interested!!! article

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