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MSbP, Lost Mothers 4

358 replies

Bunglie · 16/10/2004 12:22

I thought it was about time we had a new thread...I felt it might be better to keep the same thread name, but I want to make it clear that it is for ALL mothers who have been seperated or lost children for what ever reason. You do not have to be accused of anything to post here, we would also be grateful if anyone comes across any articles and could just post a link to them here, so we can keep up with the news! I myself seem to miss it all, and if it were not for Mnetters posting links I would still be 'in the dark' about a lot of things. So Thankyou to all of those who have supported us.

I myself feel very privilidged to be part of such a wonderful group of mums, who have shown me nothing but support. It is 10 months ago that I first 'stumbled' across Mnet. I come here when I feel down, or need cheering up, for help and advice. I know of 5 mums who have posted on this thread due to 'false accusations' but I also am aware that there are some mums out there who read it for support and information but do not feel able to post, due to the 'gagging orders' they have placed on them.

I chose a story at 'random' but asked the person who posted it if I can repeat it here,and I feel that it highlights what so many mother's have gone through.

I would hate to think that we are a 'clique' in the world of Mumsnet because we rely on all of the mumsnetters for their help and because of that I hope that no one feels excluded from posting and that you will continue to help us as you have done in the past.

Love Bunglie XX

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LunarSea · 28/10/2004 07:59

Very quickly - did you hear Sarah Harman's report on the Family Court System in British Columbia, and the difference in how MSbP cases could be reported on Radio 4 about 7.50 this morning? I'll try to post a link later - and there's a follow up report tomorrow too.

LunarSea · 28/10/2004 10:47

Audio of the Sarah Harman report is here

LunarSea · 28/10/2004 14:57

Follow up article to last week's piece, from Tuesday's Telegraph

Caligula · 28/10/2004 15:11

The Telegraph reports are very good aren't they? Why have they taken up the cudgels? Is it just an issue in which they are really interested?

Bunglie · 28/10/2004 19:13

Wow more in the Telegraph...thank you

I have been so busy today this is my first chance to log on so I will post tomorrow after reading and listening to the links...thanks a lot again.

IKNT I have not forgotten, promise!

SMof2 Did you get the emails from So'F'ia?

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LunarSea · 29/10/2004 10:15

The second part of the Sarah Harman report, from Radio 4's Today programme is here

Bunglie · 29/10/2004 10:44

I set my alarm clock to hear it ,

But thank you Lunarsea as I had not heard the first part and can now listen to them both again and I must admit I did not take in too much this morning as I kept 'dropping off'

What I do remember is that she went to a family court that was 'open' and even the father who had been accused of all sorts felt that the Family courts system should be open....or was I dreaming? I am soooo glad that there are people to put the links here for me as I would otherwise not know....I shall be honest though...this morning as I was trying to keep awake to listen and kept falling asleep I thought...oh well I know LunarSea will find a link for me....I am so So very sorry to take you for granted Lunarsea, even in my 'stupor like states' you enter my dreams, I am so very glad that you are in my opinion the 'Queen of links' and thank you. XX

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Bunglie · 31/10/2004 12:14

Thank you SMof 2 - and Shall be done Cheesy!

I have had permission from Cheesy and Spuddy to tell you that now Cheesy is coming towards the end of her time living where she is is, that she a spuddy have applied for re-housing 'together'. I really hope that this works out for them. Spuddy has a bedsit and it looked like Cheesy would also be 'allocated' one also, however they pointed out to the council/Housing Assoc. that if they lived/shared a flat together this would be cheaper and better for the council...so let's hope that the council see 'logic' and that they get their wish.....I have everything crossed for them.

Do you lot realise that these two individuals that you know as Cheesy and Spuddy, (wish they would change their names as I can't get a baked potato out of my mind!) Have come together, found self-respect and found that life does have something to offer them both and that they need not feel ashamed for what happened to destroy their lives in the past...because of YOU!

Despite what people think of mumsnet and 'changes and all the things I have read....it has been a lifeline to me and certainly changed 2 peoples lives for the better and I feel that if you can do this for people that you do not know....then Mumsnet is a very valuable rescource that should be appreciated, however mumsnet is what it is because of it's members....and that is YOU, so I would like to extend my own personal thanks but have been asked by 'Cheesy' to write the following from a letter she sent to me and I got yesterday, I am sorry I did not post it yesterday.

"Had it not been for mumsnet and the support and advice that was shown I knows that I would not be alive today, because I had felt that there was no way out and it was not until I was shown otherwise that I now realise how close I came to taking my own life because I really did not understand that anyone liked me or cared. Will you please say thank you to everyone on Mumsnet for me?"

So next time you see a thread or if you ever feel like leaving, do what is right for you....but remember that mumsnet really does alter people lives and some people rely on it as their only source of support.

Love Bunglie (and Cheesy!)

PS. How are you Sobeit...?

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sobeit · 31/10/2004 18:09

Hello Bunglie. I missed the radio report, but read the news in the papers thanks to the links. I heard/read somewhere that a movie or programme has been made about msbp am I right? If so, is it due out soon. Still collecting signatures on your petition, but has been a quiet weekend.
sobeit...

Bunglie · 31/10/2004 18:14

Sobeit, to the best of my knowledge their is an American movie out that is Pro-MSBP called 'A childs cry for help' but there is one out called MAMA I think and it is based on the MAMA chat board etc...if you go and look on their homepage you can see what is available. It is HERE . I am also aware that Angela Cannings story is being made into a film which I think is very brave of her after everything that she and her family have been through, but I do not know any details.

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sleeplessmumof2 · 31/10/2004 21:29

Great news about Spudy and cheesy hope they get their home together soon, please let them know that i still have a load of curtains (not beautiful but will do a good job)and other odds and sods of household duplicate goods that have been accumulated since the my dp and i condensed two homes, i would love them to go to someone i kind of know rather than an anonymous charity shop... so if they want them cat me and wish them all the luck in the world from me

InnKogNeeToe · 01/11/2004 06:52

Ive seen the MSBP.. MAMA.. well worth ordering from their site and watching....

Bunglie · 02/11/2004 11:48

Thanks IKNT I was thinking of getting it, but did not realise you could order from the site. I Will definitely get it now.

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InnKogNeeToe · 04/11/2004 08:24

I seen the MAMA film first in the movies and there wasnt a dry eye in the house, its still hard to watch but its very eye opening, so I would recomend everyone watch it even professionals... the cost is $US 19.95 plus postage fom here .... www.munchausenmovie.com.

take care and be safe all

sobeit · 05/11/2004 12:44

Well, I sure hope I just ordered the right DVD. It takes 2-3 weeks to arrive, so will have to wait to watch it. Thank you for letting me know about this - I will watch it with interest.
sobeit

Bunglie · 05/11/2004 12:50

Wow! Sobeit...I was going to order it..but you beat me to it. I was a bit worried that I would be charged 'customs import tax' as this happened to me last Xmas when I ordered a dvd from Amazon website that came from the states...the tax was more than the dvd!

Could you let me know if it comes from the US and if you are charged tax and if so how much...as I was thinking of asking my dh to get it for me for Xmas!

I can not wait to see it...I had just heard of it...so I am very envious of you Sobeit...and well done.

I have not much news except that 'she who must not be mentioned' has had no further contact. So all is calm...

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sobeit · 05/11/2004 22:39

It was simple enough to order from the link page you gave, I was able to pay via paypal. It did say I have to wait several weeks for delivery and cost approximately £10.50. There was no extra tax charges, I order from abroad quite often using paypal - and think I would have been told about any extra charges re tax etc. Is this going to be shown on British tv in the near future? I may get to see it on tv before the dvd gets here. sobeit

Bunglie · 10/11/2004 15:14

IKNT - I had a computer crash! Could you please email me again so I can send you an email I have it ready and waiting but no where to send it to. I was sorry to hear your latest news and I very much want to send you some good news.

Sobeit- You have prompted me into action and I have ordered 2 copies of the MAMA movie let us hope that we do get them before Christmas...I will let you know when mine comes! Thanks also IKNT for the review...will I need a box of tissues or will I get angry and yell at the TV and need to but one of those rubber bricks?

I have lots to do at the moment that is keeping me busy...which I think is a good thing but some good things have happened in the last week and so I am quite a happy little 'Bunglie' at the moment. However having said that I am also angry about something I can not tell you about or anything and feel like a bottle that is going to explode sometimes.

I do not mention my dh very much as this is something that is for me...it is 'mumsnet' not 'dadsnet' and he is aware of the support that I get from you all and in a way he says it makes him feel 'pretty useless'. He is not useless, but I feel like me he is too close to the situation to be objective, hence I value your opinions so much. I feel that it would be wrong to post about him without his consent, I hope you can understand that. I do want you to know that he has said that whatever I do or decided to do he will support me over, and just as long as I realise that his support is there then he is happy. But he sees Mumsnet as 'my place' and he is right!

Finally I think that you will all be pleasedto know that I have had contact from yet another mum, she has not yet had the courage to post on here, but her story is all to familiar...I hope that if/when she does decide to tell you about herself and is confident enough that she will not get the 'bashing' she is expecting that you again will realise just how you have helped so many people.

I am hoping that Spuddy and Cheesy should here in the next week re. their application for housing...so I shall be able to tell you if they would like your curtains etc SMof2. What I can tell you is that if they get the flat together then they would love them (and need them!) So let's keep our fingers crossed for them!

I have tons to do at the moment...and that means that I need to get on with it...

Janh- Glad you had a good holiday..I guess you will expect 'holiday pay' now? Sofia had to deputise...?

Life is being very good to me at the moment but I know that not all of our little group are quite so happy....so please without me saying anymore will you spare a thought (or prayer) for all the mums who you have got to know.

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sleeplessmumof2 · 11/11/2004 10:37

havent had time to read this yet but thought i would link it for those of you that are interested.
news

InnKogNeeToe · 12/11/2004 08:19

Bunglie.. Email on its way to you

anyone about to watch the MAMA movie make sure you have the tissues ready.... I dont know anyone who's watched the movie that doesnt need them..

execelent movie

InnKogNeeToe · 12/11/2004 08:21

I mean excellent as in getting the truth out about MSBP allergations, and the lives of those affected

InnKogNeeToe · 12/11/2004 11:54

Someone To Watch Over Me, is scheduled for transmission on BBC, One on Tuesday November 16 at 10.35pm, and for the following five Tuesdays.

this is about child protection and SS as seen through their eye's.. thought this maybe intresting.

sobeit · 15/11/2004 18:25

Today I received the mama dvd - my god - is this what the world is coming to. I am so sorry for the parents an children involved. It beggars belief that this is not being broadcast in England - the public have a right to know about the dangers of these mad professors. I can't believe for one minute that they are going to get away with all the hurt and suffering they have caused to so many, why haven't they been arrested??? I don't know what else to say after just watching this programme - except that I strongly believe it should be televised here in UK and the two professors should be arrested - immediately!

InnKogNeeToe · 15/11/2004 20:59

Hear Hear Sobeit....

LunarSea · 18/11/2004 10:12

From the Independent, 17/11/2004

One flawed case found in child abuse review

A MASSIVE review of more than 30,000 children who were taken from their parents and put into care has found that just one case was based on flawed evidence.

The nine-month investigation undermines claims that thousands of parents have been unfairly accused of abusing their children as a result of wrong medical advice.

The review was ordered in January after Angela Cannings was cleared on appeal of murdering her three babies. Mrs Cannings had been convicted and jailed on the basis of evidence provided by the later-discredited paediatrician Professor Sir Roy Meadow.

His so-called "Meadow's law" stated that one apparent cot death in a family was a tragedy, two were ground for suspicion and three meant the babies had been murdered.

Yesterday, in reply to a parliamentary question, Margaret Hodge, the Children's minister, said that, out of 28,867 cases in which a care order was in place, only one had been changed as a result of the review.

Only 26 were found to involve disagreement between experts about medical evidence and, of those, five cases raised "serious doubt" about the reliability of the evidence which had led to the care order, she said.

The parliamentary statement, as recorded by Hansard, is here :

Vera Baird: To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills pursuant to the answer of 5 July 2004, Official Report, column 460W, on adoption cases, when the Association of Directors of Social Services survey on past family cases concerning children and expert medical evidence will be placed in the Library. [194996]

Margaret Hodge [holding answer 2 November 2004]: The Association of Directors of Social Services (ADSS) has now completed its survey, and I have today placed a copy of the results in the Library.

This is the second stage of the survey of family court cases concerning children and expert medical evidence, conducted by the ADSS this year following the judgment in the case of R v. Cannings. The first stage of the survey, the results of which are already in the Library, looked at the cases of children who were the subject of current care proceedings. Across the 130 local authorities who responded to first stage of the survey, disputed medical evidence featured, or was anticipated to feature, in only 47 out of 5,175 cases. Where the impact of this evidence was known, there was a change to the local authority's care plan in one case. The first stage of the survey did not consider children who were already the subject of a care or related order, which has been the subject of the second stage survey.

Across the 127 local authorities that responded to the second stage survey, which was conducted during July and August 2004, 28,867 children were the subject of care orders or freeing orders on 31 March 2004. 26 cases involved a serious disagreement between medical expert witnesses. Of these, five cases involved a serious disagreement between medical expert witnesses in which any doubt has been expressed about reliability of the evidence following the judgment in R v. Cannings. Of these five cases, the care plan remains unchanged in three cases. In one case the plan had been changed already in light of new information reviewed in 2003 and in one case further consideration of medical evidence by the court is being awaited.

The figures collected in this survey will not include any care orders which have previously been discharged through the courts on the basis that it is safe for the child to do so, quite independently of any specific review being undertaken by the local authority. Approximately 1,000 applications for discharge of current care orders are made each year, of which around 80 per cent. are granted. This survey only includes children who are currently under the care of the local authority?not cases where the care order has been discharged.

Expert witnesses' medical evidence is only one of the many factors in the complex and difficult decision-making process that surrounds the safeguarding of children through the courts. As the survey shows, very few cases where children are currently being looked after by local authorities depend on the evidence of medical expert witnesses.

The courts must have access to the best possible expert witnesses, and the Chief Medical Officer is currently leading a programme of work, expected to be completed by early 2005, to ensure the availability of competent, quality-assured medical expert resources to the family courts.

In addition, as I indicated in my statement to the House on 17 June, I am also now issuing a Local Authority Social Services Letter setting out key aspects of the recent Appeal Court cases of Re LB and Re LU, which make clear the implications of the criminal court judgment in R v. Cannings on family proceedings, and also details the case of Dr. Colin Paterson, currently suspended by the General Medical Council, pending an appeal, as a result of his activities as an expert witness.