MSbP, Lost Mothers 4

[Bunglie]

I thought it was about time we had a new thread...I felt it might be better to keep the same thread name, but I want to make it clear that it is for ALL mothers who have been seperated or lost children for what ever reason. You do not have to be accused of anything to post here, we would also be grateful if anyone comes across any articles and could just post a link to them here, so we can keep up with the news! I myself seem to miss it all, and if it were not for Mnetters posting links I would still be 'in the dark' about a lot of things. So Thankyou to all of those who have supported us.

I myself feel very privilidged to be part of such a wonderful group of mums, who have shown me nothing but support. It is 10 months ago that I first 'stumbled' across Mnet. I come here when I feel down, or need cheering up, for help and advice. I know of 5 mums who have posted on this thread due to 'false accusations' but I also am aware that there are some mums out there who read it for support and information but do not feel able to post, due to the 'gagging orders' they have placed on them.

I chose a story at 'random' but asked the person who posted it if I can repeat it here,and I feel that it highlights what so many mother's have gone through.

I would hate to think that we are a 'clique' in the world of Mumsnet because we rely on all of the mumsnetters for their help and because of that I hope that no one feels excluded from posting and that you will continue to help us as you have done in the past.

Love Bunglie XX

Thank you all....I think I have worked through it in my head....with your help.

I guess I found it hard because I made excuses for her behaviour 15 years ago, but now...with all the publicity, knowing my illness is not fabricated etc...etc.....she will believe what she NEEDS to believe.

I shall not give her or this letter another thought and get back to knowing that I know the truth and soon hopefully so will my children and everyone.

Aloha - I love your posts, you put it so succinctly...I wish I could

If you don't mind this Bunglie would like to ask you a question....

A lot is going on but I am afraid that I really have almost over-stepped the mark in telling you what I have in the last couple of days, but I needed 'help' in working things through in my head and I was too close to the situation to find the answers for myself. However, with your help this Bunglie feels 'back on track' and has got to get down to some 'serious thinking'. I wish that I could explain more.

What I should like to know is that I have told you that I was charged of a 'terrible crime', I then was accused of having MSBP and 'lost' my children and they were adopted. I guess I thought to most people that they would think 'Child-abuser' and that I did not deserve to have any contact with my children and deserved to 'loose' them. Yet you did not, you showed me (and other mothers in worse situations), sympathy and compassion and not one of you has ever hinted that you think that I did anything to deserve this and that it was a miscarriage of justice.

I do not doubt that child abuse exists, it is only too real, but why did you choose to believe me? What was it about what I had told you all that made you realise that I had done nothing wrong? I also realise that there may well be MNetters who read this thread who do not agree, and in that case I would like to know why you think I am guilty and therefore deserved to loose my children.

I know this is a big thing to ask you all, but it will help me to put things into perspective, and I need to do that if I am going to continue to fight for my children and for those children of parents who I believe have also been falsly accused.

Can you tell me what it is about what I have told you in the last year that has made you 'instantly' believe what I have written...because although I am grateful for all of your support and advice in the last few months I need to understand why you believe me and if it is 'me' you believe or is it because you think that the 'system' is wrong and that is why you believe me.

I really do hope that this makes some sense...
Love Bunglie XX

P.S. Spoke to Cheeseball and Spudbrain and both send their love...but more on them later!

well first and foremost in my mind Bunglie is that you (or your postings) appear to be driven by love for your children. I agree that child abuse does exist and we never really know who is an abuser and who isn't. When I was in hospital before I had dd (waters had broken, waiting for labour) a lady called "Patricia" came onto our ward - she was 28 weeks pregnant with her 7th child. She told me that she didn't care whether her baby lived or died 'cos the other 6 were in care due to "the eldest making allegations of a sexual nature" against her and her dh. Social Services wanted to take this child too and so if it died they could't get it. What struck me about her was that she didn't appear to give a damn about her children (obviously I may be wrong) but she was more concerned about who could possibily bring her cigarettes into the hosp as her dp probably wouldmn't be visiting. She was planning to move away where they couldn't find her and her dp and have more kids and seemed perfectly okay with her existing kids in care. Im sorry if I have offended anyone by saying this but every word is true and I can still feel the horror I felt then. There was no compassion at all about the woman and you Bunglie I don't think are capable of feeling like this woman. It seems to me that you want what is best for your children and you have definitely been cheated by the system in place 15 years ago which unfortunately seems to be able to keep you, and other mums in the same position as you, down and unable to fight back.

Thanks Jampot..what an awful story, but I do understand I think...what you are saying is that because I have always expressed love and wanted the best for my children that shows that I would not have abused them...am I right?

If I am thank you...

Is this why others think the same as Jampot...please note I need to know this and I am not trying to start off a debate on if MSBP exists or not, I just need to know what it is about what I have written that makes you believe me.

I am so sorry about that mum jampot...that is awful

yes thats exactly what I meant Bunglie.

I think from reading posts of people (the majority of which I don't know and a handful of those whom I have met) one tends to get an idea of the type of character - obviously the more one posts the more of their "character" shines through (good & bad )

I believe you and everyone else who has posted here and everyone else I have read about because I don't believe that msbp exists full stop. And if there are parents out there who harm their children, then they are ill with something real, not some made up syndrome that has no scientific basis behind it. And they should be receiving treatment and help not being told that they are beyond hope. As a society we seem to manage to offer help to everyone else who does something wrong (rehabilitation and all that). Why on earth are mothers exempt from that same basic humanitarian treatment? Msbp is a load of tosh and every single piece of real scientific research done on cot death and "unexplained" infant illnesses shows that there are real causes and not some made up syndrome.
bunglie, ignore the ignorant person who is satifying her own evil needs and guilt by continuing to blame you for something that you DID NOT do.

Well this may be long and it is brutally honest!

I think right back at the beginning of your threads, your first posting really, my thoughts were that it was irrelevant whether you did or didn't do what you were accused of. Even if you had harmed your children and/or had MSBP that might mean you were an ill person but it did not make you a 'bad' or 'evil' person who had deserved to lose her children. I was struck by the way that in society generally mental disability is viewed as being something curable with drugs/counselling and time. The priority had you been found to have been suffering with MSBP should have been to help you recover from the illness and to have put protective measures in place for your children for the short term until you were able to take care of them again. The approach they did take, EVEN IF YOU WERE GUILTY was far too punative in my mind.

Over time though as the story unfolded it became clear to me that there had been a terrible miscarriage of justice. Your love for your children shone through all of your posts here even when it meant that you would suffer further your priority was to do what you felt was right for them. This is what I would decribe as 'true mothering behaviour' the ability even in severe pain to prioritise the needs of your children. That alone spoke volumes to me about your character and the type of person you are.

I suppose what I'm saying is that in the beginning it didn;t matter to me whether you were guilty or innocent - you were still a human being who was crying out for help and support. In time though your love of your children and the obvious flaws in the expert witness, step-monsters evidence, adn then the flaws in the general process of the adoption all convinced me that you were indeed innocent.

Bunglie - life has dealt you a bad hand as far as your children go, but you've played it out like a real card shark! Your final play of your hand though will be the one that wins the pot! You must tell your children all that you have told us and as they are your offspring I have no doubt at all that they are intelligent and bright enough to spot the truth in what you say

Thank you...I spent half the night trying to work it out and could not...but you have been honest and I appreciate this.

I now know what I need to concentrate on and don't worry it is not 'that' letter or its contents but what is important...the truth, my right to tell my children the truth and a hope that they will find the support that they are going to need when they do know.

It was important also for me to try and understand this because I thought that it may help me in actually telling my children the truth. What it was that had inspired the belief that what I was saying was true.

I hope and pray that one day in the not too distant future that no other woman or child is ever seperated due to false allegations like this.

Thank you for your honesty.

just a small point but what would actually happen if you broke your gagging order?

Bunglie, I believed you from the first post. One reason was because I know that miscarriages of justice happen. Another is that I know the family court system is atrocious and that secrecy and justice are incompatible. And another is that I believe that in the last 20 years or so, the social work, medical and legal profession have been going through some strange kind of psychosis with regard to mothers and abuse, where it does seem that they constantly see abuse where it does not exist.

But it was also the tone of your posts. It has always been so clear that you have put your children's welfare above every other consideration, even your own happiness, that to a neutral observer, no other conclusion is possible but that what you are saying is true. Anyone who doesn't believe you, I would say, is probably not neutral, for whatever reason.

If I broke the gagging order, Hmmm...

Well the advice I have had is that they would probably not put me in prison, however I could get a very heavy fine. Worse than that, who ever I told if they repeated it, or let's say they were a journalist and they published my story there are cases of journalists being put in prison for refusing to name their source and printing material that is under a 'gagging order'. I would hate to think that just because I want everyone to know the truth, especially my children first, that someone could end up in prison due to my act. That would be awful for someone to loose their liberty, (or be fined) because I wanted them to tell my story.

well I for one would contribute to a fund to pay your fine not that im encouraging you to go this way. but if you were say on GMTV and told it yourself then is hte producer liable?

Yes and the company!

Bungle, is Janh still your pa while on sabatical or is anyone else taking your emails at the mo, [Smile}

Janh is still my PA, I suppose that I could ask SophiaAmes to deputise.....or any other willing soul who know Bunglies email to CAT you....and you could have the 'Bunglie' address, if that makes sense to anyone.....

Bunglie - what I forgot to say earlier, is that I feel you gave us a fairly 'warts and all' set of events. I think someone who had been lying would have given us a much more edited version - promoting only the bits that suited their story

Thanks for that soapbox...I was a bit worried that you had thought that I had only given you my version...which has to be subjective....I did not want to do that because it was important to me that you knew the truth 'warts and all' and if I had only told you 'nice' things then I would not only be lying to you but to myself...I hope that makes sense???

Happy to oblige...but only if you spell my name correctly. ...emails won't reach me if you don't.

OOp! Sorry Sofia...a 'ph' is a slip of the fingers!! will email..

SMof2 if you CAT sophiaAmes she has something for you or vice versa...I am not sure if I am coming or going!!

thanks have done and will do !!!!! Vision of you spinnning now

SMof2 I think this Bunglie has been going 'round in circles for the last week...but at last I think she is 'sorted out' thanks to you all.

Ahg! Just realised that I did it again...sorry So'F'ia....no 'ph'

Well, we'll let it go just this once or twice. Normally it's an excommunicable offence.

Sofia (without a 'ph') Thank you