Alfie Evans 6

[CamomileTeaShotofVodka]

Following on from the last thread. If there's one already please do delete this one.

Remember not to speculate or make negative comments about the family or discussions will be stopped.

Thoughts are with Alfie tonight

Such an important and sensitive topic.

Tom and Kate are young. Yes, I know they’re adults but they’re dealing with such a huge, huge thing (understatement, I know). I do think age has a factor in how we process information. Regardless, I have nothing but respect for them and of course, sadness for the situation they are in. I wish the family peace, especially little Alfie.

Talking only with regard to AA, there's been a distinct absence of critical thinking within their ranks

So completely true. A few of my fb friends have ranted then admitted they haven’t read the judgment which is crucial to any understanding. As a parent, I’m comforted that if the unthinkable ever happened and I was then unable to make a rationale, objective decision in favour of my son, the authorities would step in and safeguard his interests.

Mighty agreed and much of the snobbery is not even disguised.

His situation is shit. But bad things happen to bad people too, it doesn't suddenly make them decent or nice people

Is it that you want this to carry on because you are enjoying the drama?
Because I can't think of another reason why you would want to stir things up.
All through these threads the claim has been that they are full of compassion for the family and its all about little A getting the right to die with dignity.
But for some its clearly not what this is all about.
Its about the gossip and speculation and sneering at the family.

The family have made a statement that they are cooperating. Why is that enough for you?

Ravish, I'm sorry, I interpreted it as a justification which was my mistake. Like you, I have chosen not to express my opinion about the actual case on here.

Some of the comments on the AA site are beyond belief. One of the people commenting about it being blackmail and conspiracy I actually recognise as a deputy head of a primary school
The moderators are telling people they must “shout louder”
But this comment below is the worst

I am so hurt by this 😢😢 Alfie has a special place in my heart. He's been my life for so long, esp the last few weeks. I'm gutted i really am 💔💔💔“

Yep love because it really is all about you

user1471 - so sorry
Thank you for your posts. You are very brave and strong - because you had to be - and put others before yourself. It has been good to have you on this thread

Dear god - has anyone read the polish woman's statement on the Army site?

@Sozzler

No probs, Sozzler. There's so much to take in all at once on these threads too. My head's been spinning from all of this.

Best wishes.

Regardless of the events of the last two weeks, regardless of some of the impetuous words that have been said (and, for all we know, are now being bitterly regretted), all that matters now is that two young people, barely adults themselves, face their last hours with their precious baby boy. This is the hardest time of their lives and will have a huge impact on their lives going forward.

Surely all that matters now is those precious last moments with their much loved son?

Let’s all hope that the army slap down those who threaten to turn on TE and KJ, that they melt away and leave these poor young people to make the most of these last moments.
to all of you who have been in a similar situation. I was present when my best friend’s life support was withdrawn and this sad case has brought back many memories, not all good.

user1471450935 Completely agree with you that it's grief, not age. I was only 19 when I was in this situation with my son. There were parents in a similar situation all around me in their 30s/40s that were handling it much worse than I did. Misplaced anger towards the staff was very common. Of course not to the extent we've been seeing in this case, but grief really does consume people in the most different of ways.

user147⚘⚘ Thank you for sharing your story, your love for Phil shines through.

I work in NICU and have experienced EOL care and believe me it's extremely tough to watch parents cuddling their baby until he dies, I won't say it's common place but it happens a few times a year.
I have great respect for the parents that make the heartbreaking decision to withdraw care. To some it's a 'quick' decision, for others it takes days to decide the best course. I have only known 1 case go to court. I think our unit does eol care really well, we have a specialist family support worker who does all the foot prints, casts, memory boxes etc. she's amazing.
I recently had to watch my darling dad die from terminal cancer. we as a family didn't realise how close to the end he was and I'm forever grateful to the Dr who phoned and got us to the hospital so we could sit with dad as his life ended. I felt privaliged to be with him at the end of his life just as he was there at the start of mine.
to everyone going through this at the moment.

MrsDV I think some people are struggling to get past the ill will that has been whipped up by TE against a loved and respected hospital and its staff. The words used have been unwarranted notwithstanding grief. There is no doubt that every person wants dignity and peace for the little boy.

Goodbyestranger
If that was aimed at me, believe you grow up bloody fast, and you do what you have to do, no choice, no room for indecision.
I have empathy and sympathy for KJ totally, I respect her dignified actions, TE I hope he finds peace, little respect left.
But if I where KJ or his parents I would have him on 24/7 watch, I truly fear for his future.
That is my only regret in all of my time, my struggles to keep on an even keel, 200 miles away, on my own no family and working 18 hour days, made me neglect my Dad, with terrible consequences.
But I have to live with that

Ravish, I agree. Lots has been discussed and I have found much of it very informative and thought provoking but of course also very sad.
Best wishes to you too

There’s an awful lot of thinly disguised snobbery on this thread
It’s not disguised at all.

I hope & pray that TE and KJ have some peace in the days ahead.

I feel like it would be appropriate to end these threads now. This will be my last post anyway, as I feel now that the family need privacy, have requested it and we should respect that.

It is a 180^ turn but I’m assuming they’ve finally realised they can’t fight any further. This makes me believe that Tom Evans, all along, has only behaved like this due to his intent to try and fight for his son. We won’t all agree, but perhaps to him he can’t live with himself until he exhausts every option. And now that the final court appeal was been turned down, he’s letting himself rest as he’s realised that he’s done everything he can, however misguided it was.

And who are we to judge?

Yes, some things have been said which are horrible. And the situation got out of hand. But Tom Evans isn’t a bad person, just a young man who’s son is dying and is completely desperate.

The main thing is, he seems to have reached the end of the line with his own fight and I hope he realises that if anything could have been done for Alfie, his son would not be having EoL care.

Honestly I think the biggest sadness here is that TE and KJ might not able to take Alfie home. I hope they can, for as horrible as the death of a child is, their own home is better than the hospital. I hope they can mend their relationship with Alder Hey who no doubt will remain professional and take their son home to slip away peacefully.

I feel the army will die down now. A few may be a bit more radical, but hopefully this won’t happen.

And whenever Alfie passes away, I hope his parents will have a big support network, yet also be able to find joy in their new baby, who may be a source of happiness in such a sad time.

I don’t think anyone will forget Alfie Evans for a long time. It’s highlighted many issues to do with PR vs child’s rights, but hopefully the precedent set shows that parents have responsibilities and not rights, hence the child’s welfare will always be paramount.

And for anyone still in doubt, I know the death of a child is horrible and hard to discuss. But please consider that continuing a child’s life is NOT always in their best interests.

I think this has shown that many people find EoL care an unknown subject, or are misinformed. We must remember that Alder Hey are not killing Alfie, they are letting him go as it’s the best thing for him as medically nothing can be done.

I know this case has stirred up a lot of feelings for some posters and I hope everyone finds peace, whether their sadness is past or ongoing.

All I hope for now is an eventual, peaceful and media free passing for Alfie and happiness for Tom and Kate in the future.

Yep the polish person is a true shit stirrer. Also just seen a comment from a guy on the dignity 4 life saying he will batter an Alder Hey staff that he comes across and put them in a bed with tubes. It’s screen shot that another person has posted. It’s been reported to the police.

Maybe the guys punishment who posted that vile comment should be if he ever comes to a NHS hospital or doctor for help he will be turned away, no matter how ill he is

*and who are we to judge Kate James, who has remained silent and dignified throughout her ordeal?

Windermere - what a disgusting comment that man has made, I hope he is held accountable for his comment.

user147.... another here who thanks you massively for sharing your story about your dear brother Phil. He will be so proud of you.

These cases aren't difficult to understand as such. The facts are clear and the reason decisions have been made are clear.

What's been unclear to me is the decisions by the authorities to allow the protests to remain and also exactly what EOL care involves and what palliative care actually means.
Thankfully some very helpful posters have answered my queries.

The only thing that's bothered me (if bothered is the right word) is the date of the original court hearing. I know they'd been disagreeing with how to proceed with Alfie's care for months but the baby was admitted just before his first Christmas and the date of the first hearing was within a week of his second. As a parent I know this would have affected my mindset somewhat and wonder if waiting until new year would have been better? It woukdnt have changed the outcome but from what I understand it wasn't a time constraint with regards his health that prompted that date?

american I think its pretty ironic that people on this thread are criticising AA for making it all about them yet are commenting as if this case has anything to do with them.

It hasn't. This is a news story about a family that people don't know. Its nothing to do with them and they don't know anything about it.
I think people mistake reading about and being semi obsessed with a story with actually being involved.

As rapt as people are now, in a few weeks this will mean nothing to them.

There are some very nice people on these threads but the whole concept is massively hypocritical.
Just because posters tend to be more articulate and literate than AA it doesn't make these threads so much different from FB.

Trouble with the polish post it's been shared a lot on that page