MSBP: Lost Mothers 2nd thread

[GillW]

New thread beacuse Bunglie needs the existing ones to be temporarily archived (and the last one was getting so-o-o-o-o long...)

Bunglie - don't jump to conclusions. It is HUGELY unlikely that the APs have found this site. I just think it's pretty much impossible. You said yourself that you spoke to your dd alone for a few moments when they came round without their witch AM. Her husband could have told her (probably did ) or your dd or your ds - it's exactly the sort of thing she would quiz them about mercilessly, don't you think? And of course the letter is about to go to your dd and she is about to turn 18 and they both know that this is a turning point. They have probably noticed that you are more assertive and they know for a fact that you have been pressing the adoption agency to withhold this dreadful letter from her. There is nothing they can do I am sure to stop you telling your dd the truth once she is of age. Please don't panic - I just don't believe they have seen anything of this. There are other more likely explanations.

I know you are holding back from telling your son because you want to be sure it is in his interests, but really, are you sure it is in their interests to be told terrible lies about their mother that might make them think you never loved them? That's an awful burden for anyone. I'm sorry and I don't want to push this, but I tend to think the truth is always better than lies.

I found an interesting link here where she says if the UK courts won't take the parents' rights into consideration, then the European Court of Human Rights will - and gives an example of where the aprents won some compensation.

I know Bunglie that you are not looking for compensation per se - just the right to communicate openly and truthfully with your children - but at the moment YOUR human rights are being abused.

I have thought that 'yes' there could be another explanation. There may well be, but the AP's 'took' enough information that if they 'googled' just Meadows or 'Bunglie' You come up with various references to mumsnet, starting on page 6! I also think that some of the info in the letter could not have come from ds or dd. In fact it is imposssible!
I am very sorry that the AP's have taken me as a 'threat' but for the time being I think I have to stop posting. Better safe than sorry.
I do want to continue to support the 'other mothers' and I am just checking out at the moment what is the best thing to do.
It has so far been an awful day so far and I feel very .
I do have an idea but need to email Janh.

Bunglie, have sent you a message; sorry I couldn't reply earlier but was at work.

Postsue, good to see you on here but sorry you are feeling so down. to you and any of the other mothers reading this.

Bunglie has just sent me a message to say that she's been admitted to hospital again and will probably be out of commission for several days. I don't think it's too serious, but will keep you posted if she manages to sneak to the loos to text me.

OMG 2 days away and come back to sad news

Bunglie hope your ok and will talk when you feel up to it. I don't think AP could have found this site but i also understand that you need to be cautious.

Just spoke to bunglie. She's in hospital (not serious, just annoying) and will probably be in for a few days more.

I just have to have a little rant and rave here:

If the ap's really have found this thread then I'd like to say to them...
I think it's really sad that the ap's have felt the need to try and play heavy with bunglie. If they really loved their adopted children they would wish them to have a healthy relationship with their parents and wouldn't be scared that it would take away from their relationship. I only wish that bunglie's children had been adopted by truly caring and loving parents (like maryz). As an atheist, I also don't understand how people who claim to be devoutly religious can do things that are so clearly against the teachings of their religion.

And just a little more of a rant...it's been a tiring week:
I don't know what has happened to this country. England seems to have returned to the times of Dickens, where the priveleged can take from the poor or uneducated and the state supports them in this. And no one (other than us mumsnetters) seems to care. The idea that the parents of autistic or otherwise disabled chidlren have to fight to get the most basic care/rights/assistance is just sick. And if they complain too much they get threatened with the accusation of MSBP. And that there has been virtually no review of the social services as a result of the roy meadows scandal or victoria climbe (sp?).
I am really sad today. This last week I have witnessed one incident after another of really angry people spitting pure hatred at each other in the street and just not caring about the people around them.

Hey SofiaAmes, well said. Thanks for posting about Bunglie, I was getting worried there. When you speak to her, send her my best wishes, please.

Agree with everything you've posted. Except that there was an investigation into the tragic death of Victoria Climbie. But the key recomendation was really threatening for parents in the light of the MSbP cases and what we now know about the anti-parent ideology prevalent in 'child protection' circles. The recommendation the Government is enthusiastically promoting is the one to have a national state database containing records of every child. As if that isn't Orwellian enough, every time an official, such as a doctor, HV or teacher records a 'concern' such as low birth-weight, it is registered as a 'flag' on the database. Two flags are enough to provoke a case conference. Can you imagine how many more children could be wrongly snatched from their parents? And how many children who are really being abused will be neglected by officials who are too busy harassing decent parents to protect children like Victoria who desperately need their help?
I contacted Liberty (the civil rights pressure group) to see if they were planning to lobby or campaign against this. They said they didn't want to stir up publicity because they felt that would be seen as anti-child protection. Can see that politically it would be difficult. But somebody needs to raise the roof about this, put it in the context of the MSbP scandal and point out the very serious risks.
I don't know who though. Need a frustrated and worried icon.

What a thought. My hv was concerned because my dd was too tall and my ds too short. And also expressed concern because my dd wasn't turning over at 8 mo., never mind that she was crawling with no trouble. And oh gosh, my ds couldn't name all the thomas trains at his 2.5 year check. Guess I must be a bad parent. Sorry, but I think this country has gone nuts. You don't want a national id card, but seem perfectly happy to have a national dna register of your children. And nobody wants to make a fuss about anything. Everytime I try to complain about something, I'm dismissed as a whining American.

Bunglie if you see this, or Sofia if you talk to her, please pass on my concerned best wishes for her. It's been a truly awful week for you Bunglie, and my heart goes out to you again.
Eddm, OMG, I missed that. It's terrifying. I already avoid talking to my gp or hv about anything to do with ds - and now I think I'm wise.
Sorry you've had a horrible day Sofia.

I'm amazed by Liberty's attitude Eddm. What are they for? I have to say, I don't know them at all, but a civil liberties organisation which is afraid to stand up for civil liberties in case of political controversy sounds like a waste of space.

Somebody on another thread posted a link to an organisation called ARCH (Action on Children's Rights) who look like they are active on these issues, but I don't know who they are and I'm rubbish at posting links. It might be worth a search if you are interested.

ARCH - looks like a much more dynamic organisation, meanbean, thanks!

Bunglie, hope you'll be liberated again soon (and keep that phone hidden this time) and hi to postsue and cheeseball - and whatever happened to spudbrain (? have I got that right this time?)

Having had nearly 2 weeks of being able to do nothing but think, life has been very frustrating. I think that I let this letter get out of proportion, and because I felt threatened and did not know what to do I reacted by saying and doing nothing and thinking 'they win' and I loose my children if I argue.
Well I lost my children 15 years ago and I can tell you that it is a pain that never goes away, but why should I be intimidated into submission by the people I trusted to love my children and show them guidance and truth until they reach adulthood. In all honesty thinking about it I do not know if they have found this thread, but I was suddenly frightened. Now reading your responses they must see that I have support, I have a group of people who do not think of me as awful and that I do not deserve to have a relationship with my children but feel that I had my children unjustly taken away. I know that you do not know ALL of the facts, but that is because it could identify me and the children, but I do not think that anything I have not told you will be of any great importance, you either believe or disbelieve what I have said. I have been punished for 15 years, made to feel like 'a monster' who tried to kill her daughter. Nothing can hurt more when you know that is not the truth. I will not be beaten into submission when for the first time in my life I feel as if I have support. I know that the last time I saw my children was the happiest day that I have had for a longtime and I will not let them take that away from me. I am also not going to be stupid and post here what I am doing to help get my children to realise the truth and 'tip' them off so that they can do what they appear to have done. I said I wanted to stop my daughter receiving a letter, so what do they do? Give her the letter 6 months early. Hence they win I loose. I am going to be more cautious but you have all supported me and deserve to know what is happenning but will you forgive me if I leave some facts out to protect my future actions and hopefully win the right to tell my children the truth?
I am sorry but I think the AF is either rather two faced or a coward. I asked him if I could say something to the children and he agreed, at no point did he stop me or ask me not to say something and he was free to do so. He in fact went on to refer to me as their mother and said that he would be happy to speak to anyone who could help this situation. I wrote to them in February of this year, asking them to meet with me, but they did not even have the courtesy to respond. Well, I have had to play second fiddle to them for long enough and if they want to use the Local Authorities Solicitors, to threaten me and do not have the courage to say it to my face or even write to me, I don't have to accept it as right just because it seems that my actions have caused ripples and the local authority and the AP's feel threatened.
Do you think I am being rational or do you think I am just angry and behaving in an irrational way?

Bunglie - you are being rational about this - don't just give in you have come too far for that. Your children must be very confused right now- have you been able to talk to your DS again since you met up?

And FWIW I believe you...

I have sent my ds 3 texts and tried to phone him once, only to get his mobile answering service, after a couple of rings and no reply to any of the texts. I am worried because it is obvious they have said something to him and he's avoiding speaking to me. I thought it might be because he has said he would like to come down on his own and has spoken several times about visiting and I did ask him for his copy of the letter he got from the social services when he was 18, and he said he forgot it. I did not say anything except to reassure him that that was OK and I would get a copy of it from else where. I think he has divided loyalty and does not know what to do and realises that he is caught in the middle. I feel so sorry for my ds and dd at the moment because none of this is their fault. It is a shame that the adults involved could not be honest with each other and sort out some kind of resolution privately without resorting to threatening letters from solicitor. I find it odd that the AP's used the Local Authority Solicitor who are over 50 miles away from their home. I think that the local authority must have 'offered' them the use of their legal services.
I am also annoyed with the AP's because for 15 years they let me believe that they had 'taken over' as the trustees of a trust fund I took out for my dd and ds when they were born and only when they visited did I find out that they had not done anything about it and that I was still the trustee. The AF did tell me though that I can cash in the policy but to reinvest it or do with it what I wanted but NOT to give it to my ds? Does he think I would steal from my children, and why tell me now that they are not the trustees. It seems that they do have a problem with fact and fiction, just what I was accused of.
Sorry I am feeling very angry and frustrated. We need a 'frustrated' emoticon! Thank you soapbox, I need to keep this in proportion and it is hard when it occupies so much of my time at the moment.

go bunglie!!!! glad to hear that your stay in hospital seems to have rejuvenated your drive. Why on earth shouldn't you give your ds his trust fund. It would probably be of great help to him when he starts university. I'll write more later, but a bit down right now as I'm having trouble at work with my annoying passive aggressive boss.

APs are extraordinary, cannot imagine why they act like this. Do give your son his trust fund, that's what it's there for ? can't believe aps would rather he went without than have the money that has been saved for him. Selfish, selfish people.

I was wondering about posting a copy of the letter that they sent me here, but I then thought, what is the point. It is not worthy of that and I think I shall run out of Loo paper first and need it there. Also what is the point of inflaming an already difficult situation and stooping to their level, so I have decided that I am not going to give in and if they want to have a meeting with me then they can come to my party or cut off their noses to spite their faces! Now to more important things my ds. What do you think I should do. He has not answered phonecall or text messages, do you think I should write to him or should I just give him space for a while? What do you think?

I would text him saying something like 'DS wld realy like to talk 2 u. I know thngs r going on that must be confusing for u and DD but I will tell u nything u need or want 2 know. I promise u I will only ever be honest with u and wld never lie - you and DD have had enouf lies in your lives so far. Love Bunglie xx'

Someone younger than me will probably do a better job of putting it into text speak!

Keep trying poor things must be really really upset about everything. The APs sound very very defensive and scared. Maybe they are worried about what will come out of the box once the lid comes off as far as DD and DS are concerned.

Bunglie, this has been lurking at the back of my mind for a while, how would the AP's know to google BUNGLIE as a name, have I misread something, or NOT read something, googling Bunglie and Meadows does bring you up, but how in heavens would they link these 2 names. I am very confusssed, and am joining you in the "bear with little brain"

All my love,

and espically to Spudbrain, (coz you posted before I joined and I never "got to meet u in person, but am delighted to know) and to Cheeseball and postsue. You are all in my thought always