So do Black lives actually matter then?

[WeGonBeAite]

Surprised to see no conversation on one of the biggest issues in the news at present.

The one thread I have seen referencing this took the angle of the police officers dead. I did give it a quick browse, but as usual the thread was derailed and focused on proving that UK news channels poorly covered the most recent deaths and that seemed to be it!

I haven't come across any real discussion on the actual incidents and more importantly the obvious trend of police brutality on black lives.

Why?

There are protests all over the world right now, and there have been three in London over the weekend alone.

In a civilized society, uproar should not just come from a select minority, but rather from everyone!

Where is the mainstream voice? Where is the outrage? Where are the allies? Where are you?

Do Black lives not matter then?

Claig your pseudo-intellectual policitical bollocks isn't required on a thread like this tbh. And given that you were a HUGE fan of Nigel Farage before last year's General Election I'm not sure you're overly qualified to comment on what is or isn't racist.

Black Lives Matter. I am shocked at what is happening in America at the moment. I have friends over there and American friends over here. They're reeling. The reason it's 'Black Lives Matter' and not 'All Lives Matter' is because of power and minority. White people hold the power. They are in the majority. They have white privilege. It's that simple. The police doing the shooting are not the only white ones, their superiors are - usually - white. The judges are - usually white. Those in power to protect the police are - usually - white.

Someone posted an incredibly simple summation of it on Facebook yesterday. 'Black man is shot by police. Newspapers print his prior crimes. White guy is convicted of rape. Newspapers print his swim times.' That spoke volumes to me.

It's not difficult to understand. And people bleating 'but all lives matter' are missing the point. Whether they're doing that willfully is anyone's guess.

OP, I don't read aggressiveness in your posts. Anger and frustration? Yes and rightly so.

LostQueen Yes he is a breath of fresh air!!!! But that's another 'internal' conversation to be had altogether.... #I'mSoTired

To all those that have offered their support and have been forthcoming in saying they feel it is not their struggle, or worry about speaking out of turn, one thing you can do is to put your discomfort aside to educate others and share things that have resonated with you personally.

Unfortunately another privilege you hold is that you will be believed with almost everything and be seen to have an 'educated' view on issues of race more that the aggressive black woman (seriously no pun intended).

This conversation has progressed SO much since White people have began to add their support, but we still have so far to go.

LostQueen's post above says it all so brilliantly!

'Claig your pseudo-intellectual policitical bollocks isn't required on a thread like this tbh'

LilacSpunkMonkey, I was replying to the OP, not you.

Well, you couldn't have been replying to me, seeing as that was my first post on this thread

Lilac thank you.

I don't have knowledge of claigs posting history but I am clearly flogging a dead horse. I will now ignore and I hope everyone else does too.

I will summarise however with But listening is a two-way thing. Just because you may think that police are racist, it doesn't mean that the police have to agree with you highlights my point exactly. You are neither Black or an American police officer. You should perhaps ask yourself why you have chosen to take the side you have, and backed yourself into such an unsteady corner to do so!

If you're a racist, at least own it .

Do people think American police (or even British) are institutionally racist? YES!!! - Without being personal, only a person in SERIOUS denial could still try and counter this.

The problem with claig is that he or she has failed to grasp the basic reason and principle for black lives matter. All he or she knows is that the world has forces that is ready to get us with his divide and concurs comment.

One of the black lives matter is actually black, the male that most people claim is white. He has had the mistreatment because of the one drop of black blood rule. Most people think he is white but not where he grew up. He knows how it felt to be treated as other in his own country and hometown. He has experienced.

Explaining black lives matter to claig is pointless. As I have written on another post before. The police in America do not keep data of people they kill or it's a secrete that cannot be devolved to the public but they keep records of police officers. The number of people murdered have been collected by organisations like the one with the guardian. That's the statistic being used. It's not form the American law enforcement. All the black lives that have been murdered the reason why its disproportionate is because it's concentrated in certain areas. It's not widespread I terms of areas.
The percentage is also disproportionate compared to how many clack people are in America. 40 million out 320+.

What black lives matter is saying in simple terms is that the majority white lives already matter. Even the poorest white lives still matters more. What they asking for is for all lives to be on par with each other in terms of importance. Not to be treated like the country does not belong to them, as if, they are a second class or even third class citizen.

They don't want their lives to be better than yours but on par, bloody on par for goodness sake.

Talking about police officers, I have interviews that would counteract that.

I have posted this video on another thread before. I love so much.
m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=FpVZzQEKs9g&a=

'If you're a racist, at least own it '

Oh dear. I'm not a racist. I thought you wanted a discussion about why so few people were discussing this issue and I think it is because they don't think it is about race.

' I will now ignore and I hope everyone else does too'

OK, then I will stop wasting my time trying to answer your questions.

Well, the historical institutionalised racism is definitely there. It's well documented. I think (I bloody hope) we're slowing moving away from it here. But that might be me wishing a bit too much.

America? Definitely still lots of racism. And I would imagine the further South you go, the worse it gets. How anyone can begin to deny it is beyond me.

Quencher I watched that video earlier when you posted it on another thread, I absolutely adore it! Anyone that can break down complex issues to articulately has my attention immediately. I saw on his channel that he has another video about White Privilege that is also great.

We live in a society of law and we are all equal under the law God! this says a lot about your mindset and understanding. You haven't got a clue have you?

If you can understand that the law in america and sometimes in the uk don't apply to all. My cousin works for the probation office. Equal laws my left foot
Maybe I should talk about how my best friend and her family where harassed in the U.K. By police officers. Or classmate of mine who was bitten up by the police.

I too love that video. I got lost on his YouTube page for 40 minutes! His facial expressions

WeGon I mentioned global warming because that (as in climate change denial) was claig's pet tinfoil hat theory a while back. claig likes to take an issue and roll with it, before adopting a different viewpoint, almost overnight. When they are whittering on about whichever non-oxbridge politician, or sometimes which one you would never believe is oxbridge elite, is tickling their fancy, thi week, claig has an audience of about 3 and msot of those are there for the trainwreck. However, in this issue, they have gone beyond obsessive and unthinking into territory that is altogether more unpleasant.

'Maybe I should talk about how my best friend and her family where harassed in the U.K. By police officers. Or classmate of mine who was bitten up by the police.'

Do you think the police don't beat white people up too? Under law, you can make a complaint against the police if they do that. Whether you get a result with the IPCC etc depends on how just the system is, but that is again down to our laws which can always be improved.

The op being called aggressive because she asked people to listen to her plight because no one else has raised it or seen mine. So, because they don't want to listen, the op should have shut the fuck up because all lives matter. This is the summery so far.

1 + 1 = Unicorn.... That is literally the Mother F logic 😂😂😂

Do you think the police don't beat white people up too? Under law, you can make a complaint against the police if they do that. Whether you get a result with the IPCC etc depends on how just the system is, but that is again down to our laws which can always be improved. With racial abuse ? I doubt they do that to white people.

Claig

You really ruin any valid point you might have with your flagrant whataboutery.

'You really ruin any valid point you might have with your flagrant whataboutery'

I disagree. Everybody agrees that black lives matter. I think the exclusivity of "black lives matter" and the OP's title "So do Black lives actually matter then?" and the implication of that is a bad thing for society and the whataboutery expands it to "all lives matter".

Hi OP - I think it's very wrong that as a black person you're more likely to be stopped by the police and less likely to come away unscathed than a white person - esp in the US - but I don't talk about anything on social media. I talk to DH about it. Mostly my group of friends talk about what affects them directly - as British citizens abroad in the EU - it's brexit.

So, what am I doing other than talking to DH? To be honest, nothing on BLM. I try to keep my society trained prejudices in check, I guess it's racism like you said earlier. I try and contribute to my workplace's effort to hire more black men and women in a white dominated industry. I challenge prejudice when I see it - this is hard. somwtimes it's coming from my nearest and dearest. But I don't shout about BLM on social media because I feel like it's easier to live and make a difference in real terms where I live with the people whose lives I touch. thanks for the thread, it's helpful.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2680536-Three-police-officers-shot-dead-in-Dallas

The issue wasn't ignored entirely on MN, you didn't really look very hard.

I would agree it didn't have the focus of say bloody BREXIT probably due to locality. But it hasnt gone ignored.

There are however areas of less interest in the media, on MN etc such as the Aturturk bombing. I mean good god, rolling news on every tiny detail of Brussels airport bombing for days, same thing, more victims, busier European Hub and NOTHING because it was in Turkey.

So While I would dispute that no one talks about these things at all Black, Asian, Muslim lives are less discussed due to proximity and relatability / inevitability in those countries.

But they matter. They matter.

I'm very hesitant to start this all up again, but...

Claig - yes, far more white than black people are killed by police in the US. About 25% of those killed are black, so yes, looking at the numbers, far more white people are killed.

However... Black people make up about 12% of the US population. This means that black people are twice as likely to be shot as white people.

Looking at numbers is meaningless, you need to look at it in relation to percentages within the population. And this shows that black people are twice as likely to be killed. The officers are also less likely to be disciplined or prosecuted when a black person has been shot.

Now, I'm not saying that all of the black people shot are totally innocent, and I'm not saying all of the white people shot are guilty. But the figures unequivocally show, percentage wise, that innocent black people are far more likely to be shot, and without any repercussions for the police.

Do you still think there is no race issue?

Have you actually read about white privilege, because your arguments sound very much like they come from a position of privilege.

claig you're talking utter bollocks.
I've shared and reposted several 'blacks lives matter' memes and and am appalled at the obvious and very blatant racism in American Police forces.
But as a white English woman I worry it looks like virtue signalling and also a little naïve of me to be addressing issues overseas when our system is not perfect either.

The policeman who shot the black man in the car was Latino. He thought the man was reaching for a gun according to him. It will have to go to trial.

In the other shooting, one of the policemen shouted "gun".

The OP asked why more people haven't posted about the shootings. Some people have answered the OP and said they haven't posted because they felt they may be "virtue signalling" as they were white, and I think some people don't post on threads about this in case they are accused of having "white privilege" or of being "racist" if they don't think that the cops shot the people because the cops are racist.

Please stop claig you're embarrassing. It's manifestly obvious that cops in the US are incredibly undertrained and over armed and the force there attracts some violent thugs. You only have to look at how some forces manage to not shoot unarmed black people to see that.
Fwiw I do post and 'activate' I'm just aware that it can come across as virtue signalling. It doesn't stop me.

Personally, the reason I haven't posted on MN about BLM is that I don't have much to say. Sounds awful I should imagine, but apart from coming on to a thread to say "yes of course black lives matter" what else can I do? I have discussed the recent shootings with my family and friends. All in agreement that it's awful and something that makes me very very uncomfortable. I 100% believe that the shootings would not have happened had the victims been white. I am also horrified that police officers were killed during a BLM march. That did not help the movement at all. A bit like when we had the London riots and the original issue was overshadowed by idiots.

I believe there are some racist police, just as I believe there are many more that are not. I am strongly against guns and each time a shooting happens in America I find myself shaking my head and asking "when will they learn?". But I can't do anything at all about American gun laws. Making guns so easily accessible is asking for trouble. I'm sure there would be a lot more shootings in the UK if anyone could get their hands on one.