So do Black lives actually matter then?

[WeGonBeAite]

Surprised to see no conversation on one of the biggest issues in the news at present.

The one thread I have seen referencing this took the angle of the police officers dead. I did give it a quick browse, but as usual the thread was derailed and focused on proving that UK news channels poorly covered the most recent deaths and that seemed to be it!

I haven't come across any real discussion on the actual incidents and more importantly the obvious trend of police brutality on black lives.

Why?

There are protests all over the world right now, and there have been three in London over the weekend alone.

In a civilized society, uproar should not just come from a select minority, but rather from everyone!

Where is the mainstream voice? Where is the outrage? Where are the allies? Where are you?

Do Black lives not matter then?

'Why is all lives matter a response? What does that even mean? '

Because more whites are shot by police than blacks and yet we don't know their names because there are no marches or protests and that is due to politics.

All injustice is unjust and should be punished. Making a separation based on race divides us by race and in the end will lead to a more divided society.

'it does nothing to rectify the fact that BOB HAS NO FOOD!!”'

But, Bob is not the only one who has no food and no one tries to rectify that.

'If you don't believe in supporting the status quo and supporting structural racism, the logical thing would be to listen rather than attack, deflect or deny. No? '

Do you think that black Republican Presidential candidate or black sherrif, David Clarke, support structural racism? Google them to see a different view of what BLM is, who funds it and who runs it.

I remember when I first came across the concept of white privilege a few years back (am 27 now). Initially I felt sort of angry about it in a "not all white people" sort of way. After doing further reading I quite quickly realised I was being really silly, the concept isn't about me as an individual but about white people as a collective. It is hard impossible to argue that white people don't have an innate privilege. In the same way there's male privilege, it isn't about your lovely dad/husband/brother/friend but men as a whole. Same with class privilege (in the UK anyway).

Since that point I see much more clearly the actual issue at hand, not my personal hurty feelz, so to speak.

My view is that white person are incredibly threatened by black people. I can't believe the in-equality between black and white that exists in the US, it's disgusting. I can't see it changing for centuries. I wish I had more hope, but the older I get the more I think that the wars between class, race, sex etc are always going to exist unless something real earth-shattering happens. Old rich men won't give us a place at the table if we sit and beg.

'Claig to counteract Black Lives Matter with All Lives Matter is where the division comes in. It's further telling BLM supporters to "pipe down" essentially when this cause is just as important as any other human right issue.'

No one can tell BLM to pipe down. They are funded, they are political and they will continue. I think they will be detrimental and divisive and that will be a bad thing, but they will continue and the media will give them much, much more publicity because it is political.

Yes but claig have you ever seen a video of a white person shot unnecessarily? Have you any evidence of cases were a white person has been brutally murdered by a policeman? White people are negotiated with before they are shot, unfortunately black people don't get that luxury.

People not person

LostQueen Great Video. He is such an intelligent, articulate young man.

I've also seen this one doing the rounds today..... Another important point to make - especially for those that state they are not racist. EVERYBODY is!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/mar/18/everyday-racism-what-should-we-do?CMP=share_btn_tw

Team Eponmine THAT is exactly the sort of discussion I would like to have and that is a great question. I'm not so sure that those questions need to be looked at specifically. Perhaps each lends itself to the other....

Hi OP

I think you are right to ask this question. And yes, black lives matter.

I'm white and I see one friend in particular post a lot about black issues on FB (e.g. particular news stories etc) I would like to show support for his posts but to be honest I always feel like it will somehow come across wrongly. Like I am trying to appropriate someone else's issue. It's partly cowardice, partly a fear of not knowing enough about the issues to make an informed comment. Fear of whitesplaining or patronising.

But that's my issue, my fear, and it's not a good enough excuse. I am appalled by what is happening to people of colour in the US and here too, and I'd like to add my voice, even if nothing else.

By the way, to anyone wanting to understand more about the issues faced by young black men in the UK, I highly recommend watching THE HARD STOP which is about to be released. It is a stunning film and I was floored by it.

'White people are negotiated with before they are shot'

How do you know? You won't see white police shootings publicised because the media won't publicise those and no politicians will march for those and that is due to politics.

Privilege is when you think something is not a problem because it is not a problem to you personally which explains some attitudes on this thread.

OP, I agree with you and I don't find your posts remotely aggressive.

Black Lives Matter because, too often, the world acts as though they do not.

I agree, achildsjoy. Privilege doesn't see itself.

Which is what I meant when I said it wasn't Inclusive

This article from 2014 sums it up. It is shocking.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30341731

But some posters on MN don't actually want to listen. They are right. The rest of us are wrong. So in the end, what is the fucking point.

It's actually unbelievable black people are literally saying 'stop killing us' and there are people saying 'but'.

't's actually unbelievable black people are literally saying 'stop killing us' '

Do you think the police go out to deliberately kill people? That is unbelievable.

All lives matter, black, white, yellow, brown.

... white people almost exclusively do not speak and NEVER have on race issues which relate to Black lives

A small point perhaps, but I wonder what the response would have been, had anyone attempted to suggest that black people are some sort of collective who "almost exclusively" do a particular thing, as opposed to regarding folk as individuals ...

claig whilst I understand you are providing an alternative viewpoint (I am yet to research the information you have provided) I think you are going about it in such a way that you make your point very hard to hear.

I am trying to make the point that all lives matter yes, but what does that have to do in relation or response to Black lives matter.

WE and they in America have issues of racism. That is the topic here. What does police shooting white people have to ACTUALLY do with the fact that WE HAVE an issue of 'RACISM'....

To bring up global warming is about as relevant to this conversation as all lives matter. Yes we know they do, but that doesn't highlight the issue of racism against BLACK people or even, when you think about it, have anything to do with Black lives matter.

Take a look at this article on White privilege and you'll be able to see that, although divide and conquer is a genuine strategy continuously applied to maintain control, globally and on many levels, US coming together to unite will not be as easy for me as it would for your average white guy! We come to the table with different weight AND in my case this weight is 99% likely to be significantly heavier!

Unity will not work unless we can all listen to people when they tell you/us THEIR experiences, and in turn understand, accept and challenge the privileges that may afford you/us!

Claig have you actually seen the videos of Philandro Castile and Alton Stirling being killed? Your ignorance is astounding.

WeGonBeAite (I can't read your name without singing the tune in my head ,) that is another of my favourite videos from him. I rarely idolise people but he is an exception to that rule!

A few people on this thread have said that they aren't sure whether it is their place to speak up on social media or their friends post etc. I'm 99% sure that even something as simple as clicking like on a status shows support. If you're unsure about something, theres no shame in asking even if it triggers an uncomfortable conversation. Debate is healthy and this is one that has to be had, its often the gateway to educating others. It cannot just be Black People complaining if we are going to get anywhere close to the root of institutional racism, bias and privilege. I'm starting to see other races speak out in solidarity and that's important because as I've said, its a matter of basic human rights.

Even if you are not personally affected by racism, does anybody want to bring up children in a world that thinks it's ok to treat people as second class citizens? I doubt it.

Please NO MORE ALL LOVES MATTER!!!!!!!!

What has that even got to do with anything?

All lives matter, black, white, yellow, brown There are no Yellow people in the world. If you are going to make a point, at least make one!

Please NO MORE ALL LOVES MATTER!!!!!!!!

pretty good analogy explaining why all lives matter is a shit response

'I am yet to research the information you have provided I think you are going about it in such a way that you make your point very hard to hear.

Yes, I understand that, but when you google it, you will see what I am saying. I have given you black American people and sources to look at and you will see an entirely different picture to the one portrayed by the media and you will understand why.

'I am trying to make the point that all lives matter yes, but what does that have to do in relation or response to Black lives matter.'

Because by highlighting "black lives matter" it implies that someone thinks they don't when "all lives matter" includes "black lives" and the "white lives" that no politician marches for and whose names are not shown on the media when the police shoot them. The end result of "black lives matter" which is a funded political organisation will be to create more division between the races and that is a very bad thing for society and only suits political forces who want "divide and rule".

'WE and they in America have issues of racism. That is the topic here. What does police shooting white people have to ACTUALLY do with the fact that WE HAVE an issue of 'RACISM'....'

You asked why white people are not discussing this and I gave you what I think is an answer, that many white people do not consider this to be a race issue but a policing issue (and an example of that is that more whites are shot by the police than blacks). You say it is an issue or racism, but not everyone thinks that the police are racist and shoot people based on their skin colour.

'We come to the table with different weight AND in my case this weight is 99% likely to be significantly heavier!'

I think "white privilege" is a divisive politicl tactic and wil backfire and therefore is not an argument that is good to adopt.

"We come to the table with different weight AND in my case this weight is 99% likely to be significantly heavier!"

We live in a society of law and we are all equal under the law and there are laws against discrimination.

'Unity will not work unless we can all listen to people when they tell you/us THEIR experiences, and in turn understand, accept and challenge the privileges that may afford you/us!'

But listening is a two-way thing. Just because you may think that police are racist, it doesn't mean that the police have to agree with you.