So do Black lives actually matter then?

[WeGonBeAite]

Surprised to see no conversation on one of the biggest issues in the news at present.

The one thread I have seen referencing this took the angle of the police officers dead. I did give it a quick browse, but as usual the thread was derailed and focused on proving that UK news channels poorly covered the most recent deaths and that seemed to be it!

I haven't come across any real discussion on the actual incidents and more importantly the obvious trend of police brutality on black lives.

Why?

There are protests all over the world right now, and there have been three in London over the weekend alone.

In a civilized society, uproar should not just come from a select minority, but rather from everyone!

Where is the mainstream voice? Where is the outrage? Where are the allies? Where are you?

Do Black lives not matter then?

'I can't quite believe some people are pulling the "all lives matter" bs'

Because the alternative plays into political divide and rule.

Google black Republicans, black cops and black sherrifs in the States to see the politics behind it.

Thank you, LostQueen. I realise how silly it sounds to say what I have about not speaking up for fear of offending, especially given how important this issue is, but I really did feel conflicted. I will be more active in sharing my support for the movement in future.

Alisvolatpropiis I'm sorry but you are wrong.

claig It really doesn't play into political divide and rule. Does it really have to be pointed out that the "too" is inferred?

The double standard on this issue is astounding to me. It doesn't matter how many memes and analogies are out there to break down the fundamental idea behind the phrase and the movement, people still just don't get it.

IT outrages me as a human being that one sector of society seems be be targeted and murdered by police.

It's not very inclusive on this thread is it?

Gosh don't hide behind phrases like "I'm sorry but", Hunter. Just say you disagree with me, like a grown up.

In what way Coatgate? I see nobody being excluded from taking part in the conversation

Are you denying that racism is a thing, claig

This is not just your pet fad of the month, you know. This is people's lives.

My predominantly WASP twitter timeline has been full of stuff, lately, with so much happening, close to home but the shootings in the US and subsequent protests haven't gone unremarked on. Most right minded people I know are horrified by last week's shootings and by the upsurge in racist attacks in this country, too.

Ultimately, though, OP, you are as welcome as anyone here to start a thread on this topic, as it's one which affects you more personally than it does me or many others here. And you have done precisely that.

Alisvolatpropiis Not silly at all, I get it. It's an emotive and complex topic.

'Does it really have to be pointed out that the "too" is inferred?'

I don't understand the "too" bit?

'It really doesn't play into political divide and rule'

I think it does and I think some political forces are manipulating it for political purposes. Google the funding for Black Lives Matter, google what the opinion in the States is from black Republican Preidential candidate Dr Ben Carson etc. They understand it, they live there, they know what goes on.

HunterHearstHelmsley is correct

"Black lives matter. Every life matters.

I'm concerned about the separation this is causing"

This is divide and rule and it is a bad thing and will not help society.

Google BLM and US politics and you will see that there is much more to it than the media message.

Hunter, this may clarify the point about racism that Alisvolatpopiis is making

'Are you denying that racism is a thing, claig

This is not just your pet fad of the month, you know. This is people's lives.'

What do you mean "racism is a thing"?

I don't think these cops were racist. Of course it is people's lives and that is why I am worried about the "divide and rule" which is political and which will cause problems just as it did with Micah X Johnson shooting police officers at random in Dallas.

I've been involved in some very interesting FB discussions recently about the black lives matter vs all lives matter debate.

There is some really interesting writing on the "invisible knapsack" of white privilege. Essentially it summarises all the advantages, often implicit ones, that white people have. If you then place this in contrast with the systematic biases against black people, it is pretty obvious why we need to talk specifically about black lives.

All lives matter, but when one particular type of life is twice as likely to be shot by police (and many other horrid statistics), then yes, we do need to point out that black lives matter.

Very interestingly I was part of a discussion about whether a fear of losing "white privilege" is necessarily racist, or whether that fear can create a large divide without any racism in the sentiment. Rather that the desire to keep a divide is the result of a desire to keep privilege, but not a desire to have any kind of negative impact on minorities. I'm still not sure about this, but it has made for some very interesting discussions!

The issue is also very tied up with gun controls, or more specifically a lack of control! I think it gives the minority of racist police an easy excuse. If guns were not so widespread, then a fear of someone reaching for a gun would not be such a "reasonable justification" for what actually seems to be outright executions.

If the gun lobby are so intent on keeping their guns, then could the US just ban ammunition instead?

Claig by "too" is inferred, I mean Black Lives Matter Too.

This picture has been doing the rounds, btw. The majority of protesters have not been shooting police officers, contrary to what some people (not necessarily here, though who knows?) might be led to believe
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-protest-baton-rouge-photo-protester-louisiana-alton-sterling-philando-castile-a7130466.html

I've been thinking this for a few days
OP I 100 % do not think your post is aggressive .
What I noticed I have done is not mention it on social media because I am white but I have black friends . I didn't want to post something about colour and they think I think I noticed colour . Which I don't . I see my friends and that's it .
I think America needs to change radically .
I can honestly say I've never witnessed racism .
I'm sorry it still happens . Black lives do matter . All lives do matter . This shouldn't even be an issue x

Powerful.

'Claig by "too" is inferred, I mean Black Lives Matter Too.'

Well that goes without saying. All lives matter covers everyone of every colour.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread. Just enough to make me think wtf is the point answering.

But I will anyway. I don't think you sound aggressive OP. I think you raise a valid point.

I talk about this with my DH, but I generally don't air my political views to family and friends, so that is as far as it goes. I know enough to be infuriated by the "all lives matter" naysayers, but not enough to start trying to counter them. I think I am just done in with all that has been going on in the UK lately. To start battling against this just seems a climb too steep for me personally. I have personal demons to overcome and often have to step away from the news completely.

I can't speak for others, but that is why I am not all over social media shouting about this.

Rather that the desire to keep a divide is the result of a desire to keep privilege, but not a desire to have any kind of negative impact on minorities. I'm still not sure about this, but it has made for some very interesting discussions!

I find this very thought provocing too TeamEponine. I think there is a lot of truth in it but I think some people have a hard time connecting to the concept of it because the privilege isn't always something tangible and people aren't necessarily racist and want all other races exterminated. So privilege in terms of sitting at the front of the bus while black people sit at the back may not exist anymore but the privilege exists in other forms. For example, if you're a white mother to a white teenage boy in London, you rarely worry about them communing home and saying they've been stopped and searched etc by as the black mother of a black teenage boy in the same context, you worry about it every day.

Why is all lives matter a response? What does that even mean?

Bob is sitting at the dinner table. Everyone else gets a plate of food except Bob. Bob says, ‘Bob Deserves Food’. Everyone at the table responds ‘Everyone Deserves Food’ and continues eating. All though Everyone Deserves Food is a true statement, it does nothing to rectify the fact that BOB HAS NO FOOD!!”

Black lives matter is about Black lives! LGBT issues do not compete with Feminism. Why do Black lives have to? This is an issue of racism against black people. It doesn't need to include you....... And the fact that it does shouldn't upset or scare you.

If you don't believe in supporting the status quo and supporting structural racism, the logical thing would be to listen rather than attack, deflect or deny. No?

I've never understood the logic behind telling someone else what racism is or isn't! I've never understood the logic behind refusing to acknowledge the experience of others, even though MILLIONS of people describe and share the same experiences. If I choose to believe that white people 'as a group' (please don't take this personally, especially you Euripidesralph he doth protest too much and all of that... ) by and large are not 'consciously' racist or bad people, the collective response to racism, is by definition Illogical!!

Every time I have a conversation with a white person about racism and how it has affected me, I end up having to reassure. Why is that? I'm not going to do that with you Euripidesralph #Bye

The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Are people honestly saying that they don't speak up about LGBT issues or Feminism issues across the globe?

If people are determined enough they can make their own ammunition. My uncle makes ammunition for his antique guns.

This explains it well.

Claig to counteract Black Lives Matter with All Lives Matter is where the division comes in. It's further telling BLM supporters to "pipe down" essentially when this cause is just as important as any other human right issue. We cannot simply ignore the fact that sub sections of society are targeted because of their skin colour. We just can't.