Explosions at Brussels airport.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

2 explosions. Airport being evacuated. All flights cancelled.
On bbc at the moment.

[crappymummy]

they bear no responsibility for terrorist attacks so why must they proclaim their innocence?

or if they do, then so do you as a citizen of the U.K. for its foreign policy, it's arms sales, it's bombing campaigns...all have been done in your name, after all. how many of these have you organised protests against?

there is no collective responsibility for individual crimes- to say otherwise is exactly the logic of terrorism

and lol at Catholics shouldn't have to protest because they are known for not protesting

Try harder

[crappymummy]

even if Isis were proved, in a court of Islamity to be the muslimest muslims who ever muslimed, and their version of Islam proved to be the actual interpretation

none of that is the fault, or responsibility of Muslim people here

[crappymummy]

did they really distance themselves from the ira? Must have dreamt all those fundraising church suppers for the cause back home in North America

[crappymummy]

I can't seem to find a reference for the pope excommunicating the IRA (as opposed to individual members)

please could you link your source

[PausingFlatly]

BillSykesDog, have you switched from saying that no Muslims ever condemn terrorism, to saying that there are some Muslims who support terrorism?

Because those are rather different claims.

[ThenLaterWhenItGotDark]

You can't excommunicate an abstract concept I imagine.

So, Popes could only excommunicate individuals.

[crappymummy]

Tbh I couldn't give a shit whether the pope excommunicated anyone

My point remains- individuals are not culpable for the actions of others. There is no collective responsibility that people should accept on the basis of their race, ethnicity or religious beliefs. Insisting otherwise is the logic of terrorists

[PausingFlatly]

A few more:

[fourmummy]

none of that is the fault, or responsibility of Muslim people here No, it isn't. You are right. But we can protest against very, very bad ideas. So, banners such as 'Women Against Islamic State', 'Muslims Against Islamic State', 'People Against Islamic State', 'Politicians Against Islamic State', 'Scientists Against Islamic State'., 'People Against Organised Religion'.

[Bambambini]

"and lol at Catholics shouldn't have to protest because they are known for not protesting."

Yes quite, that whole post was rather ridiculous.

[OneWingWonder]

crappymummy

"My point remains- individuals are not culpable for the actions of others. There is no collective responsibility that people should accept on the basis of their race, ethnicity or religious beliefs. Insisting otherwise is the logic of terrorists"

Fine - so by that logic, will the left give up their stupid belief that the West should have to apologise for colonialism and past wars forever?

[BillSykesDog]

they bear no responsibility for terrorist attacks so why must they proclaim their innocence?

Since when was protesting about something to do with proclaiming innocence? It's normally more to do with expressing opposition to something. Particularly something done in the name of something of which you associate yourself; eg a government, religion, cause. It's for exactly that reason lack of visible Muslim opposition to terrorism is so concerning.

or if they do, then so do you as a citizen of the U.K. for its foreign policy, it's arms sales, it's bombing campaigns...all have been done in your name, after all. how many of these have you organised protests against?

I didn't organise any, because there were already many high profile protests organised (often in conjunction with Muslim groups), a few of which I attended including the large anti-Iraq war protest in Feb 2003. Lots of non-Muslim people attended that to protest about other people being killed in their name. They didn't sit at home saying 'well I've not joined the army and I'm not operating the weapons so why should I give a shit about people being killed, it's nothing to do with me, I shouldn't have to oppose killings I didn't commit'. I remember that having an extremely large and vocal Muslim presence at that protest which doesn't seem to be able to motivate itself to turn out when the people being killed aren't Muslims.

and lol at Catholics shouldn't have to protest because they are known for not protesting

I didn't say that. I said the Catholics I know didn't protest because they either supported the IRA or did not feel very strongly about opposing them. I suspect in reality it's for very, very much the same reasons there is little Muslim opposition to terrorism.

[PausingFlatly]

And getting back to Brussels, everyone there is in my thoughts today.

[BillSykesDog]

You can't excommunicate an abstract concept I imagine. So, Popes could only excommunicate individuals.

Absolutely utterly wrong. Entire countries can be excommunicated, England has been several times. The Communist party and everybody associated with it were excommunicated. Catholics who promoted liberalisation of abortion laws were excommunicated.

[GobbolinoCat]

I can't seem to find a reference for the pope excommunicating the IRA (as opposed to individual members)

And the IRA were operating under the direct directions of the Bible?

[GobbolinoCat]

Fine - so by that logic, will the left give up their stupid belief that the West should have to apologise for colonialism and past wars forever?

Indeed. Very contradictory.

[crappymummy]

I think the difference is that no one has expected individual western people to apologise personally for colonialism

you are making false equivalences here

[crappymummy]

I note that the photos of Muslims protesting Isis atrocities have gone without comment

[HelpfulChap]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


The minimising, deflection of blame and burying of heads in sand is really quite astounding.

[GobbolinoCat]

and lol at Catholics shouldn't have to protest because they are known for not protesting


I have a feeling you have re quoted me and mashed up my sentence there?


From a PR point of view....You see world wide condemnation, killing, flag burning, embassy storming over a CARTOON. From members of the Islamic population. Then we see cold blooded MURDER over a cartoon.

Can you not see, that the relative silence, from the SAME community stands out?

I never ever said Catholics SHOULD NOT PROTEST, I said they were not KNOWN FOR IT.

Can you read? Can you TRY HARDER too?

I agree its awful the media doesn't pick up on any marches the Islamic community does organize against ISIS...its not fair, helpful or even MORAL. Those marches are probably by sensible, rational, peace loving people like the "not in my name" campaign.

However its what PEOPLE SEE.....flag burning/murder/riots/protests = cartoon.

Terror attacks - Paris/ Brussels, Turkey , tunisia - etc etc etc = mild reaction at best.

I remember QT with Question Time ... Al Jazeera English presenter Mehdi Hasan, and the British/Russian businessman and owner of ... Panellist, Evgeny Lebedev ...

Mehdi put up a great argument as to why no muslim should protest, against ISIS and I personally agreed with him.... BUT Evgeny was gently hinting that although they were under no obligation to at all, perhaps in PR terms it would be a good idea, to show the clear divide between moderate and extremists.

[crappymummy]

they have said not in my name

There are photos on this thread

Hey ho, never mind eh?

with respect to the triumph of evil etc quote I totally agree. Let's hope our government stops financing despotic regimes, selling, and in some cases giving them arms soon

What a difference even that would make

on the other hand, maybe everything really does hinge on whether Shamila in Bacup parades up and down the high street saying, I'm one of the good ones! Murder is bad!

[crappymummy]

by the way, where was the widespread demos by Norwegians and Norwegian expats around the world against breivik

Sure they turn out in droves over football, but total silence here.

How am I meant to think they aren't all white supremacists

Until I see photographic evidence, I'll just assume they are I guess

Can you hear yourself at all?

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

ermmm. There has been horrific atrocities today. Can we maybe show a little respect, not be shouting at each other.

And people should certainly not demanding that Muslims all fall on their swords every time an atrocity is committed. They should not have to constantly defend themselves. The people who committed these heinous acts are in noway represented by the average muslim.

[OneWingWonder]

crappymummy

"I think the difference is that no one has expected individual western people to apologise personally for colonialism

you are making false equivalences here"

Nope - we in the West are always being told we are collectively guilty for colonialism / slavery / foreign wars - exactly the collective blame you claimed to be against.

So which is it?