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Explosions at Brussels airport.

194 replies

OhYouBadBadKitten · 22/03/2016 07:43

2 explosions. Airport being evacuated. All flights cancelled.
On bbc at the moment.

OP posts:
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ProfessorPreciseaBug · 28/03/2016 08:20

I am very sure the people who do carry out these pathetic cowerdly events want everyone to talk about them. They need publicity for that.

Of course the BBC is ever so generous in that regard. They provide all the brqnd identity and advetising the cowards desperatly want. This morning they announced the name of the cowards who murdered children in Pakistan on the news. Indeed they announced that these cowards are a new splinter group f some sort. Se we all know who did it and they got the publicity they want.

I turned off the news and am tempted to withhold my TV license as a protest.

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GobbolinoCat · 26/03/2016 19:43

proffesor Thanks for the article its appalling, its shambolic.

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stairway · 26/03/2016 18:41

Megle I do not believe there are as many people wanting to commit these acts as the media wants us to believe.
There is nothing sophisticated about this attack.. Guns and some home made bombs which didnt even all blow up tha@t anyone could make, killing around 30 people.
Anyone could do it if they wanted. Fortunately 99.9% do not. If these things received less media attention and less people saying stupid things like this is a war against western values then there would be less sick people thinking this is the way to get noticed.

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ProfessorPreciseaBug · 26/03/2016 16:24

This link makes interesting reading.. Der Spigle is a well a german newspaper..

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/following-the-path-of-the-paris-terror-weapons-a-1083461.html#ref=nl-international

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Pangurban1 · 23/03/2016 21:52

Maybe I'm not clear (of course, I think I am). Equally nasty and discriminatory treatments of different classes of people are all to be deplored and not condoned.

But you see how when this discrimination applies to women, it is not as deplored and is not any barrier to international relations with regimes carrying it out. No boycotts etc.

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VertigoNun · 23/03/2016 19:22

People seem to jump to conclusions and transfer other stuff on others without getting clarification of your thoughts.

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Pangurban1 · 23/03/2016 19:07

It was a few weeks ago. I imagine discrimination against women doesn't rate quite as much (to some people, especially men) as discrimination against other classes of people, for some reason that escapes me.

Maybe some don't want to question an ideology couched and wrapped in religion as they quite happily denounce other ideologies with similarly nasty views but not couched in religion.

However, I remember that the apartheid regime said the bible supported their practices. It didn't seem to be condoned the same way as the Saudi practices are. They didn't have oil, though.

Where are the anti-apartheid (for their version of it) movements against Saudi though?

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VertigoNun · 23/03/2016 18:59

Did those sniggering watch the itv programme last night?

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Pangurban1 · 23/03/2016 18:57

The way Saudi Arabia operates and certainly the way it discriminates against women reminds me very much of the way Fascism works and it particular targeting of certain classes of people, i.e. women. No different than apartheid, either. It could be argued women's treatment and whole life restriction in Saudi Arabia is worse. They are murdered for many reasons. For crimes only applied to them. Crimes men would not be murdered by the state for. State police assault them for not being dressed in a certain state decreed way. I don't know what happens to them for driving a car. Things that don't happen to men. Adult women don't have freedom of movement of their own bodies. They are treated by the state as forever juveniles insofar as they are at the whim of the desire of a male guardian. Can't leave the country of their own volition.

I started a thread on it. There were people having a snigger about it and comparing the discriminatory and authoritarian aspect as like a supermarket. I would be surprised if they would have sniggered about the discrimination and treatment against certain classes of people when apartheid was practices in south Africa etc. However, women being discriminated against and unfairly attacked by state police for special crimes only applied to women ...was funny and minimised. Mind you, maybe they would snigger. If they regard the particular singling out, restriction and brutalisation of women funny, who knows?

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shebird · 23/03/2016 18:30

I think the climate of fear within some of these Muslim communities cannot be underestimated. Those with information and suspicions about their neighbours, friends or family members dare not speak out for fear of reprisals. Knowing these guys are capable of beheadings and the most horrible violence is also a way to control and strike fear into the lives of their own community. If there is any hope of ending these atrocities the Muslim communities need to feel safe enough to speak out against those hiding among them.

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GobbolinoCat · 23/03/2016 16:23

There was an interesting documentary on SA last night, worth catching

I felt revulsion seeing women covered head to toe in black, treated like garbage, pushed around, beheaded, bullied, stigmatized, it was sickening.

It was revolting. The whole thing was revolting,

I cant see how they are different to ISIS really.

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megletthesecond · 23/03/2016 16:16

bamb the SA doc on ITV was an eye opener. Hard to watch though.

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Marmite59 · 23/03/2016 14:42

Late to this thread and to Mumsnet too. I have lots of sympathy with the 'don't blame Muslims' argument and would imagine that much of the absence of opposition to terrorism is due to wanting to remain a bit invisible and perhaps peer/community pressure. I don't see the need for a kind of inverse virtue signalling required tbh.

That said some of the aspects of the mea non culpa argument are beginning to wear a bit thin. Last night on the news I saw a journalist Rachel somebody arguing our approach is all wrong on this and we need to 'engage' more. I struggle with this. In my DS's school which is about 60% Muslim I see huge resources put into engagement, inclusion etc. with little, as far as I can see, return. There is a problem with radicalisation and its there for all to see. I'm not sure there is the will to resolve this and see much leaning back on easy arguments about western wars, policy etc.

I don't know the answer but I share the uneasiness of those who are scared for their kids.

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fourmummy · 23/03/2016 12:48

You can be kind and charitable without being religious. We need a serious rethink around the direction we are heading in in our acceptance.

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” (Delos McKown)

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Bambambini · 23/03/2016 12:33

I have had moderate more western living muslim friends and strict muslim friends who were actually very friendly, kind and inclusive.

Tbh, getting an insight on the strict muslims life made me appreciate some aspects of islam where some of the thought behind it was benign and to do good to others, be charitable etc. Other aspects of the religion, though also their cultural background, made me much more critical overall.

There was an interesting documentary on SA last night, worth catching.

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TinySombrero · 23/03/2016 10:58

Mummytime I have experienced the same as both you and BillSykes re friendships and acquaintanceships. It depends on the town and its demographics.

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mummytime · 23/03/2016 10:53

Well in my not very multi-cultural town, my children all have Muslim and Hindu friends. They do mix.

Actually I saw this : [http://machash.com/mac-hash-key/] and it indicates that in a lot of cases the terorists aren't the "faithful Muslim" types, but start out involved in petty crime, and become radicalised in Prison.

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GobbolinoCat · 23/03/2016 10:49

Given that these are communities where apparently people who decide to leave Islam or commit other sins like disobeying their parents by not marrying who they want are hounded in fear of their lives and forced into hiding and widely shunned by these same communities, why don't they do the same to extremists?


Interesting points, Bill and Puzzled.

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GobbolinoCat · 23/03/2016 10:44

And don't blame it on the Muslim community themselves; how many Muslim friends do you have? How much do you interact with people outside your own social group?

Well we had some lovely girls who were also Muslim in our class at school and they were not allowed to socialise with US. Then one, who always looked sad was shipped off to Pakistan to be married. We were a small class and very open and friendly with all, but I got the distinct impression the Muslim girls were not allowed to integrate with US.

I had another lovely friend who had left the faith because she wanted to be with a white non muslim, and her wider family were not happy about this, so she had to run...in the end and faced death threats.


There seems to be lots of rules in Islam which may make it hard for Muslim communities to integrate into liberal western life and some parents may wish to keep themselves to themselves ...

We have Muslim neighbours, the older ladies do not speak english but we smile all the time to each other, and have genial relations with the men, in terms of light social interaction. But that is the same level of all the neighbours on the street.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/03/2016 10:06

Even a same idea, expressed from a different angle, can set off a new train of thought

I believe this is a very valid point, and it links in with an especially observant remark made by Bill Sykes: Given that these are communities where apparently people who decide to leave Islam or commit other sins like disobeying their parents by not marrying who they want are hounded in fear of their lives and forced into hiding and widely shunned by these same communities, why don't they do the same to extremists? Why do people like Samantha Lewthwaite, Anjem Chaudhury and Michael Adebalejo live normal lives peddling extremism from within these communities but people who transgress by not conforming to Islamic ideology are hounded and persecuted by the same communities?

It's perhaps interesting that the reasons often given for punishing apostasy/disobedience in marriage, etc, are that the "sinner's" behaviour is unislamic and shames/damages the community ... but doesn't this apply a thousand fold to the minority of terrorists in their midst? In all fairness I haven't the least doubt that most muslims loathe this behaviour too, but as was said, it doesn't appear to prevent these evil folk living freely among them

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fourmummy · 23/03/2016 09:50

Doesn't stop them being endlessly trotted out, though It's a very useful thing to do though, as people are thinking. I have exhausted my own sources. I know what they are going to say. I need new thoughts, new directions, new ideas. Even a same idea, expressed from a different angle, can set off a new train of thought. It has become apparent that no-one knows what to do and yet we are facing a big problem. Unless the people voted in by us step up to the plate, things are going to get a whole lot worse. And this we do know.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/03/2016 09:43

A lot of anti-muslim rhetoric is not going to build bridges between communities

For that matter, neither is ceaseless anti-west rhetoric ... or claims that folk are blaming the whole of Islam / demanding muslims apologize personally ... or insistence that everyone who doesn't toe the desired line is racist/islamophobic/bigoted ... or any of the excellent behavioural examples just given by BillSykes

Doesn't stop them being endlessly trotted out, though Sad

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BillSykesDog · 23/03/2016 09:03

And don't blame it on the Muslim community themselves; how many Muslim friends do you have? How much do you interact with people outside your own social group?

Interesting question. Considering that where I grew up and went to school is one of the most ethnically diverse areas in the country interesting to me personally and none of my in laws or extended family are British and I've spent time living in Southall, Dalston and Bethnal Green over the years.

Using Facebook as a very unscientific assessment I'd say that about 70% of my FB are non-British or non-White in origin. I'd say about 20% European, 15% Indian, 15 % African 10 % Afro-Caribbean, 4% Far East and 4% South American. None of these Muslim as far as I know.

But only 2% Muslim. (Would possibly be more like 3% except I had to delete a girl I went to school with who posted support for the Sultan of Brunei stoning gays). These are two people of Turkish origin, one Iranian and a Pakistani girl who lives an almost totally secular lifestyle.

If you look at areas I've lived, worked and socialised in and the population of the UK as a whole this should be more like 20%.

So what's different? Personally I would say that when working or living close to Muslims the norm, at best, is being politely kept at arms length. Neighbours who will talk to you if there's a major problem or say hello if prompted but will not been drawn into general 'how are you' social chit chat. Social invitations always declined and never extended. Relationships with people outside of their own group deeply, deeply disapproved of, lack of English skills and no attempt to improve them or interact with those who don't speak their own first language, tendency for a preference for self-employment or in professions dominated by other Muslims so that interactions with non-Muslims are kept to a minimum. Choosing to live in areas with as many Muslims and as few non-Muslims as possible and socialising almost entirely within their own community.

At worst, active removal from the outside community by choosing to wear niqabs etc, outright hostility (Why are you living here? This is a Muslim area. We don't want you here. Spitting, racial insults) or an outright refusal to interact on any level. Keeping mouths closed about horrendous crimes committed by Muslims against non- Muslims or actively covering them up (Rotherham).

I find it tiresome to be told that this is all somehow the fault of British people when it certainly doesn't seem to extend to other groups such as Hindus, Sikhs and Christian Africans in anything like the same level. And finger pointing at the rest of society telling them that being shot or blown up is their fault because we've not been inclusive or made enough of an effort --when for the last 20 years that's all our society has been geared up for is insulting victim blaming.

I'm getting pretty tired of the 'but we can't do anything' rhetoric too. Given that these are communities where apparently people who decide to leave Islam or commit other sins like disobeying their parents by not marrying who they want are hounded in fear of their lives and forced into hiding and widely shunned by these same communities, why don't they do the same to extremists? Why do people like Samantha Lewthwaite, Anjem Chaudhury and Michael Adebalejo live normal lives peddling extremism from within these communities but people who transgress by not conforming to Islamic ideology are hounded and persecuted by the same communities?

It makes little sense unless, in fact, extremism is far more acceptable and palatable to a lot of Muslim communities than being a Muslim who is not extreme enough.

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shins · 23/03/2016 08:02

Also have to add I've travelled (sometimes alone) in three Muslim countries and lived in one for a few months.

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fourmummy · 23/03/2016 08:01

Bun fight? No. Just a bunch of desperate people trying to figure out wtf we are going to do. A colleague was caught up in yesterday's attack. I wonder each day if my kids will come home. I don't fancy decades of this. Did you not read what I wrote above? High religiosity is never a good idea. You can believe what the fuck you like as long as those wrong beliefs are not dragged into education, health, politics, everyday life. We know why people turn to religion - they feel that life is shit. It's been known for years. So what do we do about it?

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