Explosions at Brussels airport.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

2 explosions. Airport being evacuated. All flights cancelled.
On bbc at the moment.

[GobbolinoCat]

And don't blame it on the Muslim community themselves; how many Muslim friends do you have? How much do you interact with people outside your own social group?

Well we had some lovely girls who were also Muslim in our class at school and they were not allowed to socialise with US. Then one, who always looked sad was shipped off to Pakistan to be married. We were a small class and very open and friendly with all, but I got the distinct impression the Muslim girls were not allowed to integrate with US.

I had another lovely friend who had left the faith because she wanted to be with a white non muslim, and her wider family were not happy about this, so she had to run...in the end and faced death threats.


There seems to be lots of rules in Islam which may make it hard for Muslim communities to integrate into liberal western life and some parents may wish to keep themselves to themselves ...

We have Muslim neighbours, the older ladies do not speak english but we smile all the time to each other, and have genial relations with the men, in terms of light social interaction. But that is the same level of all the neighbours on the street.

[GobbolinoCat]

Given that these are communities where apparently people who decide to leave Islam or commit other sins like disobeying their parents by not marrying who they want are hounded in fear of their lives and forced into hiding and widely shunned by these same communities, why don't they do the same to extremists?


Interesting points, Bill and Puzzled.

[mummytime]

Well in my not very multi-cultural town, my children all have Muslim and Hindu friends. They do mix.

Actually I saw this : [http://machash.com/mac-hash-key/] and it indicates that in a lot of cases the terorists aren't the "faithful Muslim" types, but start out involved in petty crime, and become radicalised in Prison.

[TinySombrero]

Mummytime I have experienced the same as both you and BillSykes re friendships and acquaintanceships. It depends on the town and its demographics.

[Bambambini]

I have had moderate more western living muslim friends and strict muslim friends who were actually very friendly, kind and inclusive.

Tbh, getting an insight on the strict muslims life made me appreciate some aspects of islam where some of the thought behind it was benign and to do good to others, be charitable etc. Other aspects of the religion, though also their cultural background, made me much more critical overall.

There was an interesting documentary on SA last night, worth catching.

[fourmummy]

You can be kind and charitable without being religious. We need a serious rethink around the direction we are heading in in our acceptance.

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” (Delos McKown)

[Marmite59]

Late to this thread and to Mumsnet too. I have lots of sympathy with the 'don't blame Muslims' argument and would imagine that much of the absence of opposition to terrorism is due to wanting to remain a bit invisible and perhaps peer/community pressure. I don't see the need for a kind of inverse virtue signalling required tbh.

That said some of the aspects of the mea non culpa argument are beginning to wear a bit thin. Last night on the news I saw a journalist Rachel somebody arguing our approach is all wrong on this and we need to 'engage' more. I struggle with this. In my DS's school which is about 60% Muslim I see huge resources put into engagement, inclusion etc. with little, as far as I can see, return. There is a problem with radicalisation and its there for all to see. I'm not sure there is the will to resolve this and see much leaning back on easy arguments about western wars, policy etc.

I don't know the answer but I share the uneasiness of those who are scared for their kids.

[megletthesecond]

bamb the SA doc on ITV was an eye opener. Hard to watch though.

[GobbolinoCat]

There was an interesting documentary on SA last night, worth catching

I felt revulsion seeing women covered head to toe in black, treated like garbage, pushed around, beheaded, bullied, stigmatized, it was sickening.

It was revolting. The whole thing was revolting,

I cant see how they are different to ISIS really.

[shebird]

I think the climate of fear within some of these Muslim communities cannot be underestimated. Those with information and suspicions about their neighbours, friends or family members dare not speak out for fear of reprisals. Knowing these guys are capable of beheadings and the most horrible violence is also a way to control and strike fear into the lives of their own community. If there is any hope of ending these atrocities the Muslim communities need to feel safe enough to speak out against those hiding among them.

[Pangurban1]

The way Saudi Arabia operates and certainly the way it discriminates against women reminds me very much of the way Fascism works and it particular targeting of certain classes of people, i.e. women. No different than apartheid, either. It could be argued women's treatment and whole life restriction in Saudi Arabia is worse. They are murdered for many reasons. For crimes only applied to them. Crimes men would not be murdered by the state for. State police assault them for not being dressed in a certain state decreed way. I don't know what happens to them for driving a car. Things that don't happen to men. Adult women don't have freedom of movement of their own bodies. They are treated by the state as forever juveniles insofar as they are at the whim of the desire of a male guardian. Can't leave the country of their own volition.

I started a thread on it. There were people having a snigger about it and comparing the discriminatory and authoritarian aspect as like a supermarket. I would be surprised if they would have sniggered about the discrimination and treatment against certain classes of people when apartheid was practices in south Africa etc. However, women being discriminated against and unfairly attacked by state police for special crimes only applied to women ...was funny and minimised. Mind you, maybe they would snigger. If they regard the particular singling out, restriction and brutalisation of women funny, who knows?

[VertigoNun]

Did those sniggering watch the itv programme last night?

[Pangurban1]

It was a few weeks ago. I imagine discrimination against women doesn't rate quite as much (to some people, especially men) as discrimination against other classes of people, for some reason that escapes me.

Maybe some don't want to question an ideology couched and wrapped in religion as they quite happily denounce other ideologies with similarly nasty views but not couched in religion.

However, I remember that the apartheid regime said the bible supported their practices. It didn't seem to be condoned the same way as the Saudi practices are. They didn't have oil, though.

Where are the anti-apartheid (for their version of it) movements against Saudi though?

[VertigoNun]

People seem to jump to conclusions and transfer other stuff on others without getting clarification of your thoughts.

[Pangurban1]

Maybe I'm not clear (of course, I think I am). Equally nasty and discriminatory treatments of different classes of people are all to be deplored and not condoned.

But you see how when this discrimination applies to women, it is not as deplored and is not any barrier to international relations with regimes carrying it out. No boycotts etc.

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

This link makes interesting reading.. Der Spigle is a well a german newspaper..

www.spiegel.de/international/europe/following-the-path-of-the-paris-terror-weapons-a-1083461.html#ref=nl-international

[stairway]

Megle I do not believe there are as many people wanting to commit these acts as the media wants us to believe.
There is nothing sophisticated about this attack.. Guns and some home made bombs which didnt even all blow up tha@t anyone could make, killing around 30 people.
Anyone could do it if they wanted. Fortunately 99.9% do not. If these things received less media attention and less people saying stupid things like this is a war against western values then there would be less sick people thinking this is the way to get noticed.

[GobbolinoCat]

proffesor Thanks for the article its appalling, its shambolic.

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

I am very sure the people who do carry out these pathetic cowerdly events want everyone to talk about them. They need publicity for that.

Of course the BBC is ever so generous in that regard. They provide all the brqnd identity and advetising the cowards desperatly want. This morning they announced the name of the cowards who murdered children in Pakistan on the news. Indeed they announced that these cowards are a new splinter group f some sort. Se we all know who did it and they got the publicity they want.

I turned off the news and am tempted to withhold my TV license as a protest.