Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

"The problem seems to be where men get their ideas about women and sense of entitlement in the first place and tackling misogyny."

So, Luna, where do you think they get it from?

The long and the short of it is that the ideology from which this type of behaviour springs and is condoned does not go away simply because the person moves country. If the number of men of this ideology settling in Europe was low, the misogyny would recede over a further two generations. BUT as there are so many ME males who have come from a male-dominated society into Europe, I am afraid that assimilation cannot happen and the behaviours continue unabated.

I wonder when things will go back to normal for women in Cologne.

I ve just read on Greek news that in the first 4 days of the year there were 8189 refugees that crossed from Turkey to Greece that is over 2000/day. On average 45% are men 35% children 20% women

It's happened before alright - in Egypt in front of the eyes of the world. There's your answer.

Start it then Vertigo

I reckon Emma Watson doing her HeforShe thing would be a good target. I will look out for it and retweet

Without wishing to derail the thread, and this may be a tad obscure at this juncture but Claig's contributions are interesting and readable. S/he got it in the neck earlier on the last thread and no-one spoke up. I always enjoy the posts! As you were :)

No evidence that the majority of the men committing the attacks had moved country Tatiana.

Well it is a bit Four but admire as you will

Charlotte Church may go for it too. I won't start it, happy to re tweet if others start.

What many of you are basically saying is that is worse when men percieved to be foreign attack women. I'm not derailing for the sake of it, I just think this needs pointing out. Accusations of derailing just seem to be the only means many of you have of not having your xenophobia being questioned.

CouncilofLadies, can I not care about both? Does one desrve precedence over another?

What have I minimised polen? Where have I minimised the crimes.

Justanotherlurker, immigration policy is already very strict with most asylum applications turned down. The UK are not accepting many refugees anyway. There is also no evidence that the majority of the attackers were immigrants.

For the first time I'm beginning to agree with this
I've long said that rape should be treated like a hate crime.
I used to think it was a power thing. But in this instance, it's a bit more than that: the men concerned were doing over the women, not the men in the crowd (as I understand the reporting).

Luna, I can't see what you can't understand about Tatiana's post. She's not saying the men had moved country: she's saying they might even have been born in Germany but that the misogynistic cultural practices of their forebears had been perpetuated.

I really want to stay and follow this thread but I have to go. Will check back into tomorrow.

Have just read this thread and the previous one. I don't think I have anything much to add to the many excellent points which have already been made, apart from Fffs Luna do go away with your nonsense.

Of course not all Muslims would take part in mass sexual assault of women and no one on this thread has suggested that is the case. However, you seem to be in complete denial of the fact that there are large numbers of Muslim men who (as a result of their cultural beliefs) think that western women are all sluts and are fair game for anything and indeed deserve to be assaulted. Large numbers of such men are now in Germany and that is why the NY attacks happened.

Fuck, no Luna, that is NOT what's being said. It's the mass and apparently premeditated nature of these attacks. If it had been men in football crowds all doing the same sort thing one particular Saturday afternoon, I'd be just as concerned and I'm sure other posters would be too.

Bloody hell. Get off your high horse and actually READ what people are posting.

PS I'm not a xenophobe. In no position to be, what with not being entirely white.

We do not have right to to stop refugees fleeing from horrible areas and hunger and death to safety. Many come from horendous backgrounds with injuries and many family members were dead. i ve read horror stories of refugees who came to Greece. This is on the online Greek news, and accounts from from coastguards, fishermen and volunteers those who rescue the refugees from drowning. The residents of the Greek islands have given humanity lessons to the world. Controlling and educating those young men who generate the attacks to women in the cities is an issue however we need to deal with. We have laws to do so.

Is there any evidence that they were men at all Luna? We all know how nasty those fuckers in the ladies knitting circles can be

What is your point Luna?

Here are the facts:

a) Men did it
b) There were lots of men

Nobody (except the right wing nutters) really cares who the men were. But it is not acceptable to do what they did.

We need to find out who did it. and not be afraid to deal with what we find, regardless of the outcome.

All simple facts

"What many of you are basically saying is that is worse when men percieved to be foreign attack women."

No one said that. Don't be silly.

Sadly Mariscal I do not think you can reliably educate those sort of culturally held beliefs out of people. For the next generation maybe, but not fully formed adult men who hold those beliefs and mix (almost exclusively) with people from the same cultural background. Whether people will admit it or not the is a huge problem with the integration of immigrants from some cultural backgrounds.

I am sickened by the attacks in Germany and agree with others who have suggested such attacks are likely to happen elsewhere. Europe needs to Be more selective with who it allows across its borders.

Want to take bets re the likelihood of it being one of the questions of Question Time tonight? Oh, no, It'll be about Jeremy Corbyn and the sacked egos of McFadden etc

Plus de change

Luna No evidence that the majority of the men committing the attacks had moved country

Apart from what the German Police have said about the people they arrested for the attacks.

"an unnamed police officer who said his squad had detained several people who had "only been in Germany for a few weeks".

"Of these people, 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. That's the truth. Although it hurts," he said.

The newspaper quoted a second police officer as confirming the 15 who were held had "residence permits for the asylum procedure". Officers took down their names, and they are in the police records, he said."

Daily Telegraph

I feel like I've slipped into a parallel universe. No mention on BBC News, but ooh, there's a gas leak in Los Angeles!

As if Cologne will be mentioned on QT. No fucking chance.

Luna said: No evidence that the majority of the men committing the attacks had moved country Tatiana.

There is loads of anecdotal evidence to suggest that very fact, esp. the guy who stated he was Syrian and tore up his German ID, saying "I can get another card tomorrow".

However, if they were Europe-born men of ME origin, then it is still a particular ethnic group doing the attacking.

I am going to watch QT too.

Council here is a link from BBC website www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35256576

"What many of you are basically saying is that is worse when men percieved to be foreign attack women"

No one is saying that. We are talking about hundreds of men gathering for the express purpose of sexually assaulting women. It is totally unprecedented in Europe. One place we know it has happened before is egypt. I suppose it's totally unrelated that the perpetrators in this case were reported to be North African/Arab in appearance. Yep, just a coincidence, nothing to do with their culture at all.

That still doesn't mean all North African men are dangerous and no one is saying that, so stop with the derailment attempts.