Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

FourMummy, good point about whether it was humane for Merkel to do as she did. I read someone comparing the struggle to get across Europe to the Hunger Games, with all its barbed wire and tear gas.

You are wrong about it being mostly young men. There are many families.

I wasn't judging anyone for wanting out and I was also aware of the finanxial aspect. Not only is it not fair those with less money are less able to escape it also is not good that thise who can pay are paying people traffickers. Paying for fake life jackets etc.

The situation in Germany horrifies me because

• the mysogyny
• German law appears so wanting on this issue
• it looks coordinated
• it will turn people against refugees. Germany has up until know been a real safe harbour
• the lack of reporting
• the way one minority/disadvantaged group is being played off against another

Whoever thought this up must be laughing their heads off at the Western response tying ourselves up in knots because the very things that many consider Western values make it almost impossible for us to even speak about this let alone counter it.

In all the reports there seems to be a lot of use of the words "alleged" and "claimed" when talking about the attacks

It is very unfair. Even going back to the Bosnian war, many had to take the illegal route to escape. It is terrifying and appalling that people profit from this.

The attacks do look coordinated.

I have to say the Daily Mail, as awful as it is in terms of everything really, at least covers a range of contentious stories, which are avoided by the BBC and, Guardian etc. They are now running a massive headline on extremism on UK's top campuses.

'"But what is it then? What's driving this?"'

According to the Prime Minister of Hungary it is the following

"Orban Accuses Soros of Stoking Refugee Wave to Weaken Europe

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban accused billionaire investor George Soros of being a prominent member of a circle of "activists" trying to undermine European nations by supporting refugees heading to the continent from the Middle East and beyond.

"His name is perhaps the strongest example of those who support anything that weakens nation states, they support everything that changes the traditional European lifestyle," Orban said in an interview on public radio Kossuth. "These activists who support immigrants inadvertently become part of this international human-smuggling network."

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-30/orban-accuses-soros-of-stoking-refugee-wave-to-weaken-europe

'You are wrong about it being mostly young men.'

The Czech President says it is mainly men

“A large majority of the illegal migrants are young men in good health and single. I wonder why these men are not taking up arms to go fight for the freedom of their countries against the Islamic State,” said Zeman, who was elected Czech president in early 2013.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/27/czech-president-migrants-should-be-fighting-isis-not-invading-europe

More than anything, this comment screams 'This is how it's going to be from now on. Get used to it".

“We will also have to explain our Carnival better to people from other cultures, so that there’s no confusion about the cheerful behavior in Cologne that has nothing to do with candor, especially candid sexuality,” Reker said.

Well rumours are that the Russians encouraged this. Which rumours to believe ?

Ego I'm not a all suggesting that DM is doing women a favour by reporting on the topic, just pointing out that they did cover the story a fair bit. I agree that the DM has not women's interests at heart. I am looking at a wide range of News sites just to see how this story is covered and to get an idea of the Media 'discourse'.

According to Kölner Stadtanzeiger, The police knew already on the 1 jan that the group of troublemakers included asylum seekers from Syria, Afghanistan and Irak. Apparently they lied about the nationality of the perpetrators as it was political contentious.

www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik/-polizei-silvester-uebergriffe-silvesteruebergriffe-sote-koeln,10808018,33475976.html

That's interesting Claig, thank you.

Sp with you Ego

and all the women who write for it are beyond contempt due to the content of it

'Well rumours are that the Russians encouraged this. Which rumours to believe ?'

Have you got a link to those rumours?

Most of the refugees have been released by Turkey from Turkish camps where they have been living for years and have then been smuggled over in boats by Turkish operators with the full knowledge of Turkey. That is why the EU and Merkel had to pony up 3 billion Euros of European taxpayer money for the Turks to limit the flow and had to offer Turkey new talks of Turkey's possible entry to the EU. The Russians have no influence over the Turks.

Nope. Tapping nose

Luna you are in denial, unfortunately, and no matter what your husband has empirically reported to you, that the majority of refugees coming are family groups with women and children: according to the UNHCR, that's just simply not the case.

And whilst Syrians make up the bulk of refugees coming through the Mediterranean (though they are, of course, not coming from the Syrian coastline but the Turkish one, and often from refugee camps or resettlement within Turkey: in which case, legally and technically, they are actually no longer refugees), there are more than double that amount of refugees/migrants in Europe from Kosovo alone.

But this isn't actually a thread about refugees, no matter how much you've tried to turn it in to one. It's not a thread about "sending them all back where they come from" or racism or anti-immigration. It's a thread that acknowledges the tensions and problems inherent within this particular set of attacks, and is questioning the way to respond and preserve, protect and advance women's rights in a changing cultural milieu.

What is heartening for me is that so many people have participated in this thread since Monday, with so many thoughtful and enlightening responses. (And as a side, I am also pleased to see many Guardian readers commenting that they are finally at the end of their tether with the paper's hypocritical double-speak!)

Claig:
Have you got a link to your allegations about Turkey?

So Germany is at Turkey's beck and call now.

'Have you got a link to your allegations about Turkey?'

I will look for the links. It has been in the news daily.

hefzi;
I gave up on the Grauniad years ago, it is now irrelevant to left of center politics.

claig:
Thanks.

I know about Soros. But what is the ultimate aim. Turkey easy to explain but not Soros.

'So Germany is at Turkey's beck and call now.'

Turkey is not the driver. Turkey is just where the refugees mainly are in the camps. After several years, they suddenly released people from the camps and the smuggling operation went into overdrive. Turkey and Merkel are not the brains behind it. Merkel is hostage to it which is why the German people are beginning to wake up and why she will be kicked out.

The Czech President says it is an organised operation.

'But what is the ultimate aim. '

As Orban says, the ultimate aim is to weaken Europe and change its way of life. The aim is to weaken indeoendent sovereign nations and make them part of a supranational union. National identity and independence needs to be weakened for that and divide and rule is a part of the destabilisation process.

So if Turkey and Germany are not the drivers who are?