Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Anyone listening to the UN briefing now? Am watching on Al Jazeera

Karreninsgirl you are braver than me. Most of the posters here have been brainwashed by what makes good reading for the press and that is why it is so hard to read. They are simply misguided. Any attempt at explaining the truth and one is just 'spilling Israeli propaganda'. That is why I am not returning to this thread- utterly sickening

1400 ppl killed now

Still spouting the human shield garbage khamas, khamas

Anyone listening to the UN briefing now? Am watching on Al Jazeera

I am. It's hard to know how much being uttered is truth or lies.

The pentagon confirm that US is resuplying Israel with ammo.

www.digital-resistance.com/insight/ex-israeli-soldier-speaks-out-shocking-truth-about-israel/

I think this was linked to in the previous thread. Former idf soldier Eran Efrati lifts the lids on the brutality of idf soldiers. Two interesting points to note:

1 israel uses the palestinians as a weapons lab to test weapons and inventions. If successful these weapons are sold to other repressive regimes.

2 israel often creates false flag situations where it's undercover reporters start disturbances or riots (or murdering 3 israeli teens perhaps??) In and around palestinian areas and then launches attacks.

Israel is often touted as a democracy but it is as authoritarian as nazi germany. The group Breaking the Silence are heavily criticised and censored in Israel as is anyone who dates to voice dissent.

Gosh this thread started off on a bit of a squirrelly note!
bakingnovice I also get the impression it's not a society that tolerates dissent. I read today that a university lecturer is being disciplined for expressing sympathy with the Palestinians. Think it was on the Guardian blog.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/un-spokesman-chris-gunness-cries-gaza

The link above is to an article about the UN spokesman who broke down and cried during an interview about the shelling of the UN school yesterday.

Banksy says my opinion of the IDF better than I ever could.

"The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by those breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages"

Dumbarton (near Glasgow) is flying the Palestinian flag above the town hall in solidarity.

Seeing and hearing Chris Gunness sob like a baby was heartbreakingly sad. I've always said that aside from seeing mothers and babies killed, some of the saddest images have been of those of grown men sobbing. How unbearable it must be.

And Shame on that hypocritical lying deflecting two faced bastard mark Regev. When Chris gunners comments were read out to him on al jazeera today he stammered some bullshit about being very close friends with Chris and unwra and accused al jazeera of trying to ruin the good friendship and relation of israel and unwra. No Regev, you piece of shit, you and israel are ruining that relationship all by yourself by killing their staff and children they are trying to protect.

Sorry for the over emotion in this post. I am sick to the back teeth of israel, Netanyahu, Regev and other sickening apologists who cry crocodile tears and claim to be the victims.

Sorry if this has been posted before but just read it and it's really moved me:
www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/30/the-awful-decisions-ive-made-to-protect-my-palestinian-children-from-this-war/

Watch "Freedom for Palestine: #GazaNames Project" on YouTube - Freedom for Palestine: #GazaNames Project:

Very very moving clip. There are other organisations too like Humanize Palestine which also want you to see the lives and stories behind each number.

Yruapita that is a brilliant video.

Interestingly, with the subtitles I found I could really appreciate the drift of Emily Maitliss' questions, as well as the closing look on her face.

I'm enraged again about our government's failure to condemn this unambiguously and start sanctions/halt arms sales.

That video with Emily Maitliss is such a classic. Here is another one with subtitles from 2012. (Hasnt he lost weight in two years?)

Do you think an army would deliberately bomb power plants and utilities to cause mass disease?

Finally, FINALLY some critisism from the US:
"In what amounted to the strongest and most explicit condemnation of Israel since the conflict began, US president Barack Obama’s press secretary said the attack on the school was “totally unacceptable” and “totally indefensible”."
From the Guardian blog.
Talks of a potential 72 hour cease fire also.

such things have certainly been known in time of war.

In Gaza, the Israeli forces have also made a point of attacking sewage works. The result is for untreated sewage to drain into the sea or the land, both of which are very unhealthy. Sewage which drains onto the land affects the aquifer which provides drinking water.

Water pipelines have also been attacked.

It is not accidental.

quadraro.deviantart.com/art/Boycott-Israeli-Goods-255187450

Just read the list above and couldn't stop laughing at the fact that someone thinks Coca-cola comes from Israel!

Lots of people speaking out including our very own Desmond Tutu (who, it has to be said, is always, always, always on the side of justice, no matter how uncomfortable) (see www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/arms-trade-israel-attack-gaza) . Also Jemima Khan (see www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2691007/SEBASTIAN-SHAKESPEARE-Jemima-lambasts-ignorant-brother-Ben.html). Brave to speak out. Contrary to what someone else said on the previous thread, this isn’t going to be a nice trendy mummy’s coffee morning one to speak out on – there will be lots of backlash as Jemima Khan has already discovered.

kareninsgirl a poster on the last thread said to hold your head up high. It's not wrong to have a different view of a complex situation where no one has the 'right' answers. It's unfortunate that there was an influx of trolls yesterday and today, which MN has now investigated. 3 posters have been banned. I have a lot of sympathy for you: I'm in the same minority position in discussions with my own Israeli family members, who are at least talking through the issues in a polite way and not accusing me of being an apologist for genocide or terrorism. I'm not liking those accusations being thrown around here. Facts are being presented in very different ways depending on the recipient's location, background and preformed opinion.

IsraeliArab you asked how I dare sit here in my comfy home and condemn Israel for responding to rocket attacks. I also sometimes wonder how I dare, especially when I'm discussing this with my family, who are there. This is why I dare:

• my own government wholeheartedly supports Israel's actions, which include crimes against humanity. It is my business to condemn my elected representatives for not qualifying their support.
• crimes against humanity are an affront to all of humanity. Yesterday was described by an UN official as a day in which 'the world stands disgraced'. Humanity knows no borders. I condemn crimes against humanity.
• frustration at the UK's unqualified support for Israeli action leads some people in this country to conclude that the only way to protect their co-religionists is to join extremist organisations and express their views through acts of terrorism, racist attacks and joining fighters in foreign wars. I do not want terrorism in my country. I do not want racism in my country. I do not want my country shamed by ignorant youths appearing in YouTube videos waving rifles and spouting hatred against entire peoples on the grounds of religion. I do not want people in this country to feel as though they have no option but to resort to violence and hatred. I do not want concern for their fellow humans to lead them down roads of violence and hatred because they feel that other roads are closed to them.

Sorry, dud link - here it is www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606228