Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

The extent of the brainwashing and radicalisation of Israeli citizens is very scary. How are the disgusting viewpoints of some of our new mn'ers any different to the exteme islamist groups that they say they are better than?

I absolutely agree Justasecond.

Well I've seen pretty much most of a nation brainwashed in my time so it doesn't surprise me all that much. White South Africans voted for apartheid again and again and again out of fear and lack of information. In my opinion, something very similar is happening in Israel at the moment.

Is murder really ‘punishment’? It’s possible we should retire that designation. No schools, no hospitals, no shelter, no electricity, no water, no sewage treatment. No great analytical skill is required to connect the dots here.

Intersting articles here highlighting the hypocrisy of labelling one set of people fighting in foreign wars as "terrorists" but not another
www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/its-not-just-radicalised-islamists--what-about-foreign-fighters-who-flock-to-the-idf-9634260.html

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/07/jihad-israel-201472272438651885.html

apols if already linked, I am a bit behind on catching up today.

Those beautiful children on channel four news report from Gaza. Such poise and dignity.

The woman from Gaza as well - amazing.
Israeli woman is making me so so angry on the other hand - won't even acknowledge the suffering of the Palestinian mother. Just total denial - saying that over 80% of the deaths are not civilians.

coca cola and Israel

I was thinking that people who support the actions of the State of Israel have got to convince themselves, or let prevailing opinion convince them, that the official propaganda is true. Although I have heard that as Nazi Germany trundled towards the gates of hell, the number of Nazis didn't increase much, but the number of people who didn't care, or said they had nothing to do with it, went up. "It wasn't me, all I did was drive the train" and "we didn't know" were the most popular excuses.

Look at loathsome Mark Regev. He obviously doesn't believe what he's paid to say, but he has to act as if he did. It doesn't take much to visualise him at Nurenberg, protesting that he was only obeying orders..

We also have to consider the prevailing groundswell of racist and ethnic hatred in Israel.

There is quite a lot of noise about anti-semitism in Europe. Europe has laws against hate speech and hate action, and reported cases have been investigated by police, and arrests made.

Observe this mob of cheery Israelis in Tel Aviv this week, singing their merry song.

I don't speak Hebrew, so on the "Is there rising anti-semitism in Europe" thread, I invited anyone who spoke Hebrew to translate it into English. There were no takers. No one would even acknowledge it.

The words mean (it rhymes in Hebrew):
"There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Olé!
"There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Olé!
"There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Olé!
"There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Olé!
"There's no school tomorrow, there's no children left in Gaza! Olé!"

When I later posted the English words I was invited to go elsewhere.

It's sickening. I find it so hard to understand such gloating over the deaths of children.

What's the stance in Germany? What is Merkel's response to this?

You were invited to go elsewhere PigletJohn because it was a thread about anti-Semitism in Europe, not anti-Arab racism in Israel that the OP was unhappy was turning into yet another discussion on Israel/Palestine. You have complained yourself about posters attempting to "derail" this thread with talk of Egypt, Northern Ireland or Syria, for example. I am quite happy to discuss anti-Arab racism on this thread. I find it frightening and abhorrent. I'm afraid I only know a tiny bit of Hebrew, so I was not able to translate the video you posted.

Halfdrunkcoffee here's an article about the current climate of anti-Arab racism in Israel and it's terrifying reading:

www.jonathan-cook.net/2014-07-31/israels-gaza-backlash-targets-arab-minority/

I can't accept or understand Americas condemnation. It's on the lines of 'israel, you've been very naughty haven't you? Now here's another $650million to spend on weapons'

I saw Regev on al jazeera accusing them of trying to spoil his friendship with unwra and Chris Gunness. The man is totally deluded and unaware of how much him and his regime are despised.

The level of racism in Israel is growing. In fact israel to survive must dehumanised and degrade palestine. I can fully believe that mothers in Israel have no sympathy for palestinian mothers. They have zero sympathy, respect or tolerance.

72 hr humanitarian ceasefire just announced to begin tomorrow morning.

But they've got to get through the night first. It's so perverse. If they are going to stop why not just stop?

"But they've got to get through the night first. It's so perverse. If they are going to stop why not just stop?"

they'll want to get a bit more slaughter of innocents in before they go on their tea break.

Interesting timing given that Israel need to replenish their weapon stores.

I wonder if it is a ceasefire on humanitarian grounds rather than an opportunity for Israel to restock. I agree, why can't they just stop now? I read a report a few days ago where one of the reporters was saying israel generally tends to increase its attacks at night when the news agencies stop reporting and their world is dark. Israel must feel less accountable by night. I wonder how many will die tonight.

I pray with every ounce of my being that the ceasefire lasts and israel agrees to lift the siege on Gaza.

That article is indeed terrifying Backinthering. Antisemitism is completely disgusting but thankfully these days is limited largely to the undereducated racists in society that no one is really bothered about and wield no real power.
What makes this worse is that the racism towards arabs is sanctioned by Israeli authorities and even educational establishments as if it is a given that arabs are inferior. Israeli firms are free to discrimate against arabs with impunity. So much for the free democratic Israel that the apologists bleat on about.Its as repressive a regime as any other in the ME.

Ilan Pappe, israeli historian has termed this an incremental genocide. Paced in its execution. Starve a nation slowly by allowing in only 1200 calories of foodstuff per person, degrade them of all human rights, blockade them in, launch an offensive every few years to remind them to remain docile, restrict their access to the world and the world to them.

And this is a modern democracy you say?

I'm so happy that there is a ceasefire and I pray that it holds firm and spares lives- then what?

That Mark Regev interview with subtitles is wonderful!!

I think somewheresafe is quite right to point out the uncanny coincidence of the ceasefire and the need to bring in all the ammo that the US has just agreed to sell them. Fuckers.

Ditto Springheeled. Some good news and respite at last.

@Somewheresafe - I do not understand how Israeli authorities can control how much Gazans eat! Anyone know the logic behind this??

I have just seen a photograph on twitter that has broken my heart, I wish that I could unsee it. I thought I was hardened to these images but I'm in floods. I hate these bastard child killers with every fibre of my being.

I just want to be able to DO something.

At least if we lives in Bolivia or Chile we could have a govt to be proud of for taking a moral stance, but no- just these fuckers Cameron and co and their vile, vile predecessor Blair.

Article on the use of calorie control as a siege tactic here:

diplomacist.org/articles/2351