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Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

956 replies

AndHarry · 31/07/2014 11:46

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines Wink

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

OP posts:
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thecatfromjapan · 31/07/2014 13:23

I'm finding many of the posts on this thread genuinely helpful in helping me understand how Israel was able to reposition itself, with the end of the cold War, to keep all that lovely US Foreign Aid money (and of course, the diplomatic support) flowing.

I'm thinking that Israel (or rather, it's right-wing leaders) can guarantee not only to be a pro-US presence in the Middle East, but also to make sure the Middle East remains in a state where it is no threat to US interests.

Honestly, up until quite recently, I didn't really think these things. However, some of the posters on here have provided a really striking insight into the use of, and thinking behind, political rhetoric.

I doubt very much that I am alone in this experience.

Our political leaders may well be largely in thrall to US power but I think their electorate - people like me - are experiencing an absolute shock; and a horrified awareness of how little our sense of justice is finding an expression in the actions done in our names as citizens.

I believe there are a lot more people reading these threads than posting, and they are mainly like me - I really am a very, very ordinary mother.

I have been discussing the situation with people in my street, with people I meet in various activities I attend, with friends - I have met with nothing but horrified agreement - and all of us saying we want some kind of action.

I'm saying this because I feel I am part of a silenced majority.

So, yes, I will be boycotting. I will be demonstrating.

And my disgust is now heavily directed towards US domestic and foreign policy that allows this atrocity to continue.

marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:24

Piglet. I was beaten up for being Jewish in London. What do you think about that?

PigletJohn · 31/07/2014 13:24

Leehy

What did you think when you first read this?

PigletJohn · 31/07/2014 13:27

marta123

I think

I have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth. If true, I am sorry to hear it. Which police station did you go to when you reported the assault?

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:29

Marta you might want to start your own thread elsewhere about being attacked.

This thread is about the nearly 1400 palestinians who have been butchered. These innocent people were not engaged in war. They were trying to exist. My sympathy reserves at this moment are for the genocide going on.

Leehy1CORD · 31/07/2014 13:30

as I said earlier, i am not Jewish myself and grow up around Muslims. I know how exactly they are treating their family members, its it really hard to wach, was wondering why they hate themselves and hate all other nations, for what reason? may you take this an amazing opportunity to explain it to me, please?

marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:30

Tell you what. lets meet for coffee and i will tell all. You don't mind going out for coffee with a Jew do you?

PigletJohn · 31/07/2014 13:32

This is an internet forum, not a dating site.

marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:33

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marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:34

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somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:35

No. That behaviour is reserved for Israelis who have been captured doing it on twitter, cnn, Facebook.

Leehy1CORD · 31/07/2014 13:36

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marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:37

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WasabiMonster · 31/07/2014 13:37

marta123 pls stop trying to derail the thread

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:38

Thecat - it's good to hear your perspective. It can be emotionally exhausting keeping this thread alive and posting links when you feel you are banging your head against a brick wall of ignorance and hatred.

It is worth it to know even one person is reviewing their take on it all.

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:39

Marta - I'm Jewish. HTH.

You're racist, you have my sympathies.

timbucktoo · 31/07/2014 13:42

I was beaten up for being Jewish in London. What do you think about that?

That is awful. How did they know you were Jewish?

Leehy1CORD · 31/07/2014 13:42

somewheresafe - quiet nice name, is it? and where are you excactly safe today in Qatar? Iraq? Iran? Europe?

marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:43

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marta123 · 31/07/2014 13:45

3 of us. 2 boys and me. they wore a Yarmulke.

IsraeliArab · 31/07/2014 13:46

SAADIA actually in part three I did express sadness and of course everyone who is decent is upset. Nobody wants children to die.

But some people here are firstly just being insulting and secondly, they don't have the facts. Israel has not committed war crimes, and anyone who actually understands the legal definition OF 'warm crimes' knows this.

As for being accused by some of you of presenting 'propaganda' - that's just a worthless insult because it's all you have.

In war, tragically, civilians die.

In all wars, always.

And no it's not remotely unclear who started the rocket fire - Hamas did, that much IS acknowledged. Why on earth would Israel risk the lives of her 18 and 19 yr olds, and bring down the wrath of the world on herself, for nothing?

It makes no sense.

Israel left Gaza, on the promise that there would be peace. Instead, Hamas increased missile attacks. I note not one of you has managed to explain this.

Perhaps you would also care to explain how it is that BEFORE that small bit of Palestine became Israel, the Palestinian Jews were ALREADY UNDER ATTACK from the Palestinian Arabs....?

Going as far back as the 1920s.

thecatfromjapan · 31/07/2014 13:49

My personal feeling is that vast swathes of mumsnet don't fall into the category of "persuadables" any more. We probably did, but the "persuading" produced something a bit at variance with what was intended.

Was it GoshAnnGorrilla who discussed what happens when you get a closed rhetorical community, who refine their language to the point where it appears completely irrational as it meets reality outside the closed group?

Anyway, I'm going to tell people this: in our area, people are baking cupcakes in solidarity with Gaza.

Think about that. And anyone with an "in" with David Cameron and Ed Milliband, you might like to pass this on.

Seriously, if things have reached a point where the cupcakes and cupcake-makers are horrified and calling for action ... well, I think you can genuinely say that a lot of us are no longer the "persuadables".

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:50

Disturbing mentality if idf soldiers revealed again. This accompanied by the idf leak that they were told to get revenge for dead soldiers is incredibly disturbing.

If the world sees such blatant ignorance and disregard of international law then they will follow suit.

somewheresafe · 31/07/2014 13:50

Disturbing mentality if idf soldiers revealed again. This accompanied by the idf leak that they were told to get revenge for dead soldiers is incredibly disturbing.

If the world sees such blatant ignorance and disregard of international law then they will follow suit.

DieselSpillages · 31/07/2014 13:55

Leehy1CORD... your first ever post is illegible.

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