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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Establishment Paedophiled Part 2 : **Warning, potential triggers**

720 replies

standwellclearvehiclereversing · 21/07/2014 12:42

A new thread following on from the previous one in Chat here

OP posts:
GarlicAugustus · 07/08/2014 22:17

I'm just so worried it's all going back under the carpet again ... I hope Davison's right when she says the public won't lie down this time.

thenightsky · 07/08/2014 22:33

don't know how I missed this thread till now!

WhistlingPot · 07/08/2014 22:49

It's very scary. I'll admit to not feeling up to reading all of your last link Garlic. The first few paragraphs were enough. I hope you're ok.

How do we know the validity of what's written on there? Do you know much about it's source?

GarlicAugustus · 07/08/2014 23:18

It seems very legit, Whistling. Most of this was made public at the time(s) of the investigation(s) and the alleged cover-up was what led to the White Marches. This is a balanced account. You can find plenty of others that extrapolate to include authors' favourite paranoid theories. This one doesn't. (It doesn't even mention some I think are genuinely connected!) While checking up on this story, I also discovered there have been similar demonstrations, with similar backstories, in Lithuania.

I know (don't ask how) that the extent of violence described does happen, in Britain and probably everywhere. So does the the protective network - it's obvious; once a person's been brought in, they can't un-know what they've seen and are demonstrably at risk if they try to do anything to stop it. As Andrea Davison points out, the child sex abuse networks are linked with arms, drugs and adult slave trafficking. It's big business. I'm full of admiration for those who persist in working against it. Too many generations of traumatised children, becoming traumatised adults or not becoming adults at all.

I'm on day 3 of reading the Dutroux page. I'm taking it in manageable chunks, interspersed with calmer things, although still feeling upset. I've just come to mention of a purpose-built underground 'bunker' for children. Let's not forget Haut la Garenne & Lambeth police station. We know this does happen, and not only in Belgium. Our natural impulse to believe it can't possibly be true is the abusers' biggest ally.

I read something yesterday about Teresa May taking her time to select the absolute best person to head up our inquiry. I bet she is ... Sad

GarlicAugustus · 08/08/2014 02:06

According to Mark Williams-Thomas, the Home Office has asked all police forces to identify all previous & present info held re child sex offences involving high profile abusers for shredding review purposes. This could be optimistically seen as admission that the problem's as bad as whistleblowers have been saying for 50 years.

The Home Office is still focused on 'historical' crimes. I think it's just as important as pursuing present ones. The terms of reference for Peter Wanless's meta-review are here. I haven't read it, I need a break! Also, I don't quite understand why Wanless is considered untrustworthy by many. If someone can summarise I'll be grateful.

GarlicAugustus · 08/08/2014 17:52

Sorry, I know I'm posting here all by myself, but still ... About how this protection is set up & maintained; why the perpetrators do business with one another and belong to the same clubs ... it's not always about paedophiles finding one another through underground networks. Many perpetrators were tricked into it. Once in, they couldn't get out.Here's one of the X witnesses from Belgium:-

"There was a villa in which a room was set up with built-in cameras. Even in the 1970s these cameras were so discreet that only the people who maintained them and the child-prostitutes knew where they were located... Why did I had to get those guys clearly in the picture, why was I supposed to get them to hit me and brutally rape me? Why was 'regular' sex often not enough?... Blackmail, the word that was never mentioned, I only started to really understand when I was thirteen, fourteen years old..."

"Contracts between the business milieu and the political world, contracts between businessmen amongst each other, fraud with subsidies or licenses, setting up fake firms, criminal contracts like arms trade... everything was possible. ... The men were brought to ideas by child pornography movies that were played at parties... The pimps also had another tactic. They invited a person who could be useful to them. They went to dine with him, and took him - after he had been liquored up - to a 'party'. Men from the top layer of society are used to visiting or getting offered prostitutes. They usually knew that something like this would follow, and the prostitutes they would see upon entering would be slightly older girls, between 16 and 18 years old. More booze and cocaine would be supplied, for ambience. And only then the 'prey' would be taken to a room where a younger girl was waiting, like me, then."

"Most men probably realized only afterwards in what kind of hornet's nest they now found themselves, but by then it was far too late... Men were introduced to the network by colleagues, friends or family members. Carefully or slowly, or briskly after a party. Step by step customers, who first went to bed with me cautiously, were stimulated to rougher sex. I was forced to help them with that... They became complicit and at the same time their mutual connections became tighter. Not one of these people was still inclined to sign contracts with individuals outside the network. If that happened one could make them pay dearly for that..."

The author says that sadomasochist obsessions combined with blackmail appear to be the most obvious reasons for the existence of the abuse networks. The extreme abuse almost seems like the ultimate admission test.

He does also mention the girls' controllers manipulating the dissociative identities the children formed as a consequence of trauma. This is the link I thought he hadn't mentioned, and he touches on it only lightly. Nowadays we know the CIA's MKUltra programme really did exist, and used sexual trauma to induce DID as well as aggressive drug treatments and forms of torture. We also know 'Monarch programming' exists and is practised in various forms, although we don't know how widely or successfully. An awful lot of shite's written about it, which is a pity considering the seriousness of the underlying facts. There's no evidence that MKUltra worked. Dissociative identity disorder can be induced & manipulated, but afaik this doesn't mean a dissociated identity can be 'programmed' to order. It's one thing to teach a child to be sexually compliant and pain tolerant by dissociating; something else to install lasting compliance with any orders given at any time in the future.

Satanic/Masonic/other occult ritual systems can be wrapped around cruelty, enhancing the sense of being part of a secret, privileged and powerful club. I don't hold with any woo-ness at all, but have met a fair number of people who genuinely believe they have special powers & entitlements due to their membership of some such.

Are any of the people we see on our TV members of exclusive child sex abuse clubs? Undoubtedly. I want it exposed - and enough high-profile perpetrators shamed & punished - so that it's not so easy to draw in new members.

Zhx3 · 08/08/2014 21:35

I'm still reading! There's so much terrible news at the moment that it would be easy to brush this one back under the carpet, I think.

I'm glad that Butler-Sloss was removed from the case, and waiting to see who will head it up. I haven't really found anyone apart from dh, who is willing to discuss the case with me. It's so horrible to think that as well as celebrities etc., those who are supposed to protect and serve us, would do this to our children. I said to dh that I just can't compute in my brain WHY anyone would want to do that to children. Obviously there are people who do and who take great delight in doing so, but I can't even begin to understand their thinking.

Thanks for all of the information on this thread. People look at me as if I'm mad when I reference MN as a great place to get information, but this, as well as the Israel-Palestine threads at the moment, are keeping me really well informed.

CFSKate · 09/08/2014 08:01

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720384/Police-probe-arrest-Labour-MP-Lord-Janner-child-abuse-accusations-20-years-ago-blocked.html

But sources close to the case told The Times that at the last minute the planned arrest was blocked. It is not known by whom.

GarlicAugustus · 09/08/2014 12:02

"Lord Janner has not registered his attendance at the House of Lords since police raided his £600,000 North London apartment last December."

Right. So his dementia's too advanced for him to bear witness and stand trial, but not so bad he can't decide to keep a low profile? Presumably his mind was good enough to carry our parliamentary duties until the investigation caught up with him?

"The planned arrest was blocked." Angry

GarlicAugustus · 09/08/2014 12:03

Zhx, thanks for your post! I agree, the Israel/Palestine threads are excellent - and it does sound odd when you cite MN :)

SantanaBinLorry · 09/08/2014 23:09

I'm still reading. In small manageable chunks. Its all a bit close to home. Thanks Garlic and Kate and others for all your research. Look after yourselves.

I'm not in the U.K. I'm glad of that right now. Not sure if I could cope with how quickly this has dropped off the news. Not surprising though :(
If I was home I know I would be compelled to take some action. Not sure what, man some phones, organize a demo. Feel so useless.

thenightsky · 09/08/2014 23:12

We need to bump this every day.

HexBramble · 10/08/2014 11:05

I'm late catching this thread and am going to hunt down the first part, but like others, I can only read in small chunks. I'm making a return on each hyperlink so bare with me.

In the News isn't going to bring enough traffic though but neither do I want this dropping away after 90 days. What's the alternative? I feel like waving a banner on each board to say "come read this".

I'm shaken to the core, the more I read, and no one in RL is willing to enter into discussion on this, not even DH. He told me to stay away and to 'think of our own children' which makes me think that he is fearful. There is without doubt, truth here. And my faith in The Establishment and those in power has long gone.

How much noise can be made? Is it fear that's making us turn away from this?

Where on earth has brave and fearless investigative journalism gone? Who can be trusted to seek the truth?

And it's pretty obvious to me why MNHQ won't comment - fear of retribution? Fear of being closed down? An issue as sacred as Child safety is being ignored and this sickens me tbh.

CFSKate · 10/08/2014 11:33

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/top-conservative-mp-revealed-secrets-4030872

Former Attorney General Sir Michael Havers is today accused of passing on state secrets to a rent boy in the aftermath of a sordid sex party in Westminster.

GarlicAugustus · 10/08/2014 13:34

Good luck, 'David'. Stay safe.

scandip · 12/08/2014 15:39

It is sick Hex.
It's all gone oddly quiet hasn't it?
No word still on who will head the inquiry. Simon Danczuk has gone a bit quiet.
I hope and hope some justice will be done. Our world is so dark. I think if the truth comes out, 'The establishment' will fall to pieces.

GarlicAugustus · 13/08/2014 01:13

Just checked Danczuk's Facebook. He hasn't gone quiet (Smile) but the issues seem to be more about individuals at local level. One would hope this means high-level investigations are still ignored ongoing, and meanwhile links must be made & victims supported.

scandip · 13/08/2014 15:07

I hope so Garlic. It's a tangled web!

GarlicAugustus · 13/08/2014 20:08

Tangled and barely visible Angry

Evening bump for everyone who, knowingly or not, is afflicted by the covert system protecting violent child abusers.

HexBramble · 13/08/2014 22:09

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it feels like an awful lot of attention is thrown onto 'celebrity' offenders - the likes of Saville, Rolf Harris, DLT (now quashed) - almost as if these people are thrown to us like sacrificial lambs and quite rightly so - may you Rot, you Bastards - but Establishment names and those in the higher rungs of power are protected.

If rumours are true, then another name or two will be blown into the spotlight (CR?) but it feels like another titbit name being thrown to us Wolves. Somewhere, a Master of Puppets is orchestrating all of this and whoever this person is needs to be brought to his knees.

Why isn't there more noise? Why aren't there more voices demanding justice? What the fuck is going on?

claig · 14/08/2014 00:08

Watched Sky News Press Preview and they showed a Daily Mail page from tomorrow's paper (today's paper) but they didn't discuss the main article on that page, they discussed another article. But it is a shocking headline about child abuse by a "top aide of Thatcher" allegedly.

GarlicAugustus · 14/08/2014 07:37

Very sad for her - and thank goodness she has the nerve to go public! Fairbairn was implicated some time ago, as well. (PDF link)

Agree with your every word above, Hex.

GarlicAugustus · 14/08/2014 07:47

"The house was often full of people, her father’s friends, who she says also abused her, or were fully aware of what was going on: ‘I was told that whatever anybody wanted I was to do it, no matter what it was."

This is what my friend, the newsreader's daughter 'onmydeathbed' says used to happen at their house. They are still afraid to speak about it.

thenightsky · 14/08/2014 09:26

That Fairbairn/Henderson thing... Jeez Shock

Garlic who is 'onmydeathbed'?

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