Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

There is a YouTube clip of rabbi Cohen. He is brilliant.

It's important that rabbis do come forward, not because there should be an obligation for them to condemn because they are Jewish, but having someone like him speaking and being applauded dispels the myth that this is a jewish- Arab conflict.

Glad the other thread is dying. I've felt for a while that there were political trolls on there.

The image of a baby girl born to a dead mother really affected me today. It is completely heartbreaking. The apologists/trolls have no heart.
The Youtube link from Timbuktoo about the ex IDF soldier is really interesting, well worth the 40 mins.
Interesting piece in The Guardian re the myth of Hamas and human shields. It is Israel themselves who use Palestinian children as human shields!
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/gaza-hamas-fighters-military-bases-guerrilla-war-civilians-israel-idf

That Hamas recognize Israels "right to exit" is often repeated by Israel and US but really what difference does it make to Israel whether they do or not?

If the success of the peace process and the realization of a two-state solution are contingent upon Palestinian recognition of Israel's right to exist, why are they not also contingent upon Israel's recognition of Palestine's right to exist?

thedailybanter.com/2014/07/isnt-israel-ever-asked-recognize-palestines-right-exist/

This is a scathing article about Israel's actions, published in Haaretz:

"Israel's attack on Gaza is revenge for the Palestinians' refusal to accept occupation"

www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.606645?v=88C55FF265C41ACDB050F1ED304C83BA

Things like this are being written inside Israel.

It seems we are unaware that Egypt is blockading Gaza at the western end?

I wish i could attend tomorrow's protest in London. Cannot attend for various reasons unfortunately. If anyone is going, please could you come back and brief? Just sitting here feeling useless! That baby, born to a dead mother. I have never seen a more beautiful newborn baby ever! I am not just saying that. She is gorgeous. I just hope that she has a better life than her mother did. I want to hope that she will, even though reality is pointing to something else. The psychological impact of not having a mum from birth will be traumatic in itself. She got no skin-to-skin after birth - that moment of connection. She will have no colostrum fed to her. The water in Palestine is unfit for consumption, how will her digestive system cope with formula? This little baby has lost do much already, it didnt have to be this way. The monsters with bombs killed her mother. She herself has a 50:50 chance of survival.

The horrific toll of Israel's genocide on children especially is beyond belief. As parents, our instinct is to protect our babies. I cannot imagine what those mothers and fathers go through when they see their children torn to pieces like that. How do those children who have lost their parents get through life in that prison camp? Do they ever feel 'safe'? I am so angry!

I hope the ceasefire results in a complete end to the genocide and isn't just an excuse for Israel to restock their depleted weapon stores.

The siege must end and I hope international pressure is applied to Israel to ensure it does end the siege.

Nobody's unaware of that Math, we've discussed it already and it still doesn't excuse or justify the Israeli slaughter of Palestinian civilians, even though you desperately want it to.

You've come on this thread to purposely get a reaction, having been thoroughly disagreed with on the other thread. I find that sort of attention seeking, particularly when it involves such terrible events, rather disturbing. I won't be feeding you anymore.

article with the little baby's story. Heartbreaking. I hope she survives.

I am willing everyone in Gaza, IDF, militant, everyone, to please please keep the truce today, and for the talks in France to keep that truce going. Too many people have died. There is too much suffering for this to continue.

Bad l

Have lost the ability to post this morning...

Bad link, sorry. Try again: BBC article

That's right anyone who disagrees with you is a troll..... Excellent way to start debate. Just as long as we all agree. I will ask mn to change the rules

CrescentMoon, I read your post:
'to forestall that instead Netanyahu had to quickly orchestrate a war and an intervention to break the rapproachment between the PA and Hamas.
i hate that man but i have to hand it to him, he will lie/ cheat/ steal for his own people. if only the other side had people half as loyal and intelligent.'

and I was nodding along, saying yes, yes, fair enough.... until suddenly the logic came to a screeching halt.
Here's my difficulty with the analysis: it is allegedly in Israel's best interest to divide Palestinians, to have two camps at each other's throats, and therefore Netanyahu did the one thing guaranteed to get them all back in bed together?

I'm not buying that.

I read the rest of your posts too.
Suffice to say I did not nod.

I am glad we all know that, GoshAnne. I was beginning to think it was only Israel that was making life in Gaza difficult.

Imo the BBC analysis of Jeroen Gunning from Durham has a lot more going for it.

Nice that you acknowledge life in Gaza is "difficult" mathanxiety. You're all heart.

No argument from me on that score Donnie.

BTW, having read through the thread, I came upon posts where you seemed very adamant to extract an admission from someone that Likud was founded by terrorists. I wondered why this was an important point for you?

Is the ceasefire in effect now and is it being honoured? That baby's story is do sad. And she has only 50% chance of surviving, if she is then not blown apart by the IDF.

Justasecond

Since Israel's original creation occurred due to displacement of Palestinian Arabs, and since its subsequent expansion is due to dispacement of Israeli Arabs, and neighbiuring Arab countries, and expansion into the Occupied Territories and the building of colonies (illegal settlements) I suppose some might think that "recognising Israel's right to exist" means "recognising Israel's right to steal and occupy land"

I am not a Palestinian or an Israeli myself, but I can imagine how difficult it might be for either party to agree to a peace predicated on accepting relinquishing what they see as their homeland. I do not know if Israel has ever been willing to enter into peace talks based on giving up all if their illegal settlements and occupied territories. I can imagine they would find it equally difficult to accept and some if them might prefer to fight on forever instead.

It would probably be quite difficult to get Palestinians to agree that "Israel has a right to exist within its 1948 borders" but I am pretty sure the US and Israel have never even tried to get them to agree to such a thing.

This is a dispute over the ownership of land.

There is no chance of either party accepting independent arbitration.

I thought (before this government) there had been an agreement for Jewish settlers to withdraw from certain areas and that had been adhered to?

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