Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

The Balfour declaration:

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Killing and removing of Palestinians has been happening since day 1. Prior to this Palestinians and Jews lived happily together.

T

There are many thousands of illegal settlements, and Israelis take great pride in using them to increase their grip on the land.

Years ago, about 2% of the then illegal settlements were removed in order to set up the Gaza ghetto, but thousands more have subsequently been built. The small, weak voice of the US is occasionally heard asking Israel to consider removing some of them, but, instead, Israel builds more.

'it is allegedly in Israel's best interest to divide Palestinians, to have two camps at each other's throats, and therefore Netanyahu did the one thing guaranteed to get them all back in bed together?'

No. Israel doesn't care if all the Palestinians are together or not. But if they all agree on peace and doing a deal which creates a state, then that might be different.

"Israel halts peace talks as Hamas and Fatah strike unity deal

Death knell sounded on talks as Israel pulls out in protest at Palestinian unity government announcement"

"Israel has formally suspended Middle East peace talks in retaliation for a unity pact between the Palestinian leadership and the Islamist Hamas movement, dealing a severe blow to US-brokered efforts to end the decades-old conflict.

The move appeared to sound the death knell to nine months of peace talks that were due to expire on April 29."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10785715/Israel-halts-peace-talks-as-Hamas-and-Fatah-strike-unity-deal.html

These images might help

Pressure must be applied to Israel to end the siege. There can be no real ceasefire unless israel agree to releasing palestinians from the ghetto, and that is unlikely to happen.

Israel does not want freedom, equality or life for the palestinians.

Apparently Israel have admitted that Hamas were not responsible for the murders of the three Israeli young men. It's all over twitter at #Gaza which is trending worldwide.

Lots of pictures too of the complete devastation of Shujaya and Ben Hanoun. Beyond belief.

www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked

I hope the above link works, the article is well worth reading.

panachronic I saw that this morning as well. The kidnappings were nothing to do with Hamas from what I've read.

Death toll in Gaza now over 900. 15 dead in protests in West Bank including 2 children. Reports of IDF using live ammunition on the protesters.

New York Magazine has something on this

nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Killing and removing of Palestinians has been happening since day 1. Prior to this Palestinians and Jews lived happily together.

Can you clarify what you mean by Day 1 Fakebook? There was violence in Palestine perpetrated by both Arabs and Jews prior to 1948.

caught up, watched that very moving video by the ex soldier and tried to not scream at wannabe's 'nice way to start a debate' comment - what debate? this isn't a debate club dear, we're watching mass murder not appearing on question time.

i've been and donated to the medical aid people and posted there donations page on facebook in hopes others will too. i've also, ridiculously and uselessly ordered some free palestine stuff including a palestine flag. i HATE flags and have never flown one but this will be hung on the front of my house.

if the other thread, which i didn't read, is winding down we should be ready to deal with people coming in who want to 'debate' or derail. i'm afraid i am going to start skim reading those posts because for me this isn't a debate or an argument - this is mass murder. if that makes me biased so be it, i am biased towards humanity and compassion. so sue me.

The protestors have been chanting 'free us or kill us' very poignant and difficult to comprehend that a nation are demanding this in this day and age and in full glare of the world.

Someone mentioned in the first thread that opinion from within israel was that the teens were not killed by Hamas. My family from tel aviv reported this too. Apparently the bodies were kept hidden for a week so the government could build public opinion into a crescendo of hate towards palestinians before launching an offensive. I'm glad it's trending on twitter.

Prof Nurit Pelet speaks very eloquently here after the last genocide and I feel that the voice of dissent in Israel and worldwide us getting louder :

meant to say if anyone has the stomach for mainstream media (it makes me want to scream so i tend to avoid tv 'news' or 'news'papers and i cancelled my tv licence direct debit in disgust at the bbc's bias recently) please could you share links here of any coverage of today's demonstration?

i'm hoping the bbc will not have the audacity to ignore it or scale down the numbers this time after the outrage last time.

also if anyone is going please take photos or video and post on here. i feel bad that i'm not going but it's a long way and i decided the money i'd have spent on train and tube fares for me and ds was better given to medical aid.

I agree honey. I won't be engaging with anyone who tries to argue that the palestinians want martyrdom, or that it's all Hamas fault, or that civilians are sitting on stockpiles of rockets. That has been done to death. There is no debate anymore, only a discussion about the ongoing genocide and how peace can be achieved.

Jon snow, the amazing Jon snow has written a very moving piece about leaving Gaza and the impact the genocide has had on him.

can you link to that article please somewhere?

Jon Snow's article

thanks halfdrunk.

so relate to the inhumanity of israeli borders. i was interogated and had everything i owned picked over, x-rayed, picked over again for hours and was treated like a criminal without any reason whatsoever. i remember eventually being like wtf? do you think i'm a terrorist? a drug smuggler? strip search me, do what the fuck you like but i'm not answering any more questions until you tell you why i'm being subjected to this. it was all because i had a lot of egypt stamps in my passport and i had requested not to have an israeli stamp.

very sad article by Jon Snow, but nothing new in it.

According to the timetable, we are due an accusation of anti-Semitism about now.

i thought that that ex soldier explained very well about how israeli's are raised to be believe that either you are a zionist or you are anti-semitic. no wonder we're having to repeatedly explain to people that being against a zionist regime does not mean you are against jews and no wonder they find it so hard to respond when asked what they think of jewish organisations against zionism.

there is a lot of cognitive dissonance to be worked through if you want to liberate yourself from a lifetimes propaganda.

Palestinian children - victims of Israeli massacre

Pin-point operation

Humanity wept.

Hello everyone. Anyone else in high street ken?
Lots of women and children here.
(Sorry for interruption but thought I might find you here.)

Thanks to all the posters who have spent a huge amount time on this and the previous thread standing up for humanity. How anyone can justify and support the current genocide is chilling.

Thankfully the majority on here are on the side of justice and humanity, I am so very grateful for your input I have learned a lot