Imperial bans Hijab

[peacedove]

[quote]Imperial College London has issued a ban on its staff and students wearing hijabs or hoodies in its buildings as part of an effort to improve campus security.[/quote]

education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1648360,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

very interesting, indeed.

Excellent news.

"excellent"

so the hijab is a security threat,

I see.

Will the nuns and monks have their dress codes reviewed for appearing in public, then?

and what will happen to the overcoats with hoods? Do we cut off the hoods, and let in the freezing cold air?

I worry about the banning of hijabs. Hoodies I can understand but a piece of clothing related to someones religon, I think thats a bit iffy!

I feel a society should be either/or: either have complete separation of church and state and mean it, or not.

I love the way you only pop up to bang on about Islam PD.

Did you read the article in last week's (or week before?)Observer on this issue.
The male author had a hell of a job finding a woman willing to discuss it with him which I think speaks volumes.

One line in it really struck a chord with me.

'Hijab does not challenge the view of a woman as a sex object.It merely confirms it.'

Oh and re nuns...last time I hung out with them,they didn't have to ask permission to do anything from men.

Peacdove, I have a friend who works for Imperial and they have stated that they will be sensitive to those who have religious issues but at the end of the day, they are within their rights to set rules that are designed to benefit everybody at the institution.

As far as Muslims are concerned, I can see the more hardcore elements hijacking this to make political capital which is totally wrong. Why is it always the Muslims that complain about things like this but not the Christian, Sikh, Jews, Hindus etc? In my humble opinion, Muslims need to get over their persecution complex and remember that Britan is not an Islamic state.

(By the way, some of my best friends are Muslims, sikhs and hindus as well as Christian and they agree with what I have just said).

Well said speedy.
My sentiments entirely.
Read another classic today-Muslim salesamn who worked for Direct Line is seeking damages for 'hurt feelings' because bottlesof wine were offered as incentive for good sales performance.
(Another Muslim guy had received booze and simply exchanged it.)

I think I may sue my dd's primary school for similar on account of winning a hamper full of food from Tesco-a place I believe to be inherently evil.

Agree Moondog. Interestingly, none of my female Muslim friends wear the hijab because they do not feel they need to define themselves in that way. One of them is 35 years old, unmarried, has boyfriends and lives her own life. You can imagine what the males in her family think about that!.

You are right moondog but there are a number of young muslim woman who want to and are proud to wear their hijab. Just look at France. I am totally against the oppression of women and to the western world, covering up is clearly symbolic of this. In an ideal world people should have the right to choose. I dont want the government telling me what I can and cant wear, it oppression in another form. Obviously this case doesnt effect me as I'm not Muslim but still.

I think nuns do have to ask men, they are very low down the pecking order and priests have seniorty

We have a big shopping centre near us that has banned motorcycle helmets and hoodies for similar reason but not hijabs, which has always puzzled me.

the difference with a nuns outfit and the hijab is that it doesn't cover the face just their hair so they would still be identifiable

'In an ideal world people should have the right to choose. I dont want the government telling me what I can and cant wear, it oppression in another form.'

But if a female went to a country like Saudi, she would be compelled to veil her head.

So why is it such an affront to people when they must follow the cultural practices of Western nations?

As for France, they have a strong sense of secularism, particularly when it comes to public places like schools, and a strong sense of democracy. Far be it from me to criticise what their people vote on democractically.

speedymama

I ask you these questions:

"Is the ban sensible?

Does it really address the security issue?

Or is it plain Islamophobia?"

Why Muslims make this an issue is that it is tantamount to limiting their rights as citizens.

I am a Muslim and I hate hijabs. None of my Muslims friends wear them and I hate the way the hijab wearing lobby try to make out that we're not really religious.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't say in the Koran that hijabs need to be worn but if some Muslim women wish to follow Saudi Arabian dress codes, then they should be free do to so.
Personally, I don't see the relevance to security issues and they shouldn't be banned. Neither should hoodies - I wear one myself to the gym. Its only clothes.

expatinscotland:

What exactly are Western traditions?

24 hour open pubs?
A few days ago it was limited hours.

sexual freedom?
Not very long ago, these were limited.

Is Victorian a part of the Western Tradition?

The real tradition that the West had prided itself on was "freedom" if that freedom did not impinge on someone else's.

What the Saudis do is not relevent here.

Separation of church and state, for one.

No one is saying people can't wear the hijab. They just can't do it at Imperial College. K, so if I didn't like that I would find somewhere else to go to be educated.

Not sure about the security issue of the hijab (bang on for hoodies, though, stupid things) - but I find the whole idea of a woman being expected to, or wanting to cover her head in this country rather questionnable. Equal rights for women in this country was a long time coming.

I'm with Peace dove on this one.

Hoodies and hijabs, what a startling conflation! The world is mad.

Why don't they just improve security with em, investment..??

expat

dress code!

OK, is Imperial a private college or a state-funded one?

Hmm I read about this in the Metro. They seemed to suggest it wasn't so much the Hijab, but the extra bit covering the face (niqb?) that was at issue. In the same way that hoodies were fine as long as they don't obscure the face.

Poor reporting perhaps?

paolosgirl,

I must be thick. How does it free a woman if the freedom to wear a headscarf is taken away from her?

So should a married orthodox Jewish woman be banned from wearing a wig? Or covering her hair with a scarf? The only difference between a Jewish woman's headcovering and that of a Muslim woman is that the Jewish one generally fastens behind the head, and the Muslim one under the chin.

I feel deeply uncomfortable about hijab-bans. I accept hoodie bans and helmet bans, because they obscure the face, but the hijab does not. And wearing a hijab doesn't mark a person out as a suicide-bomber.

I think this discussion on the Imperial website sums up the sentiments:

In Portsmouth a judge has recently refused to ban a young offender from wearing a hoodie on the basis that since he's been caught 5 times in the past year the hoodie obviously doesn't hinder his identification.

Sid - Nov 08 2005 11:09

As I walked past the Science Museum this morning, I noticed a sign in orange suggesting searching of bags.

I think it might be worth recommending to college to have sniper dogs with guards at each entrance, and a full body search for all entering the campus. I also think this should be followed by a full interrogation on each individuals preference of shoes, clothes, route, choice of subject, lunch, sleeping time, waking time and anything else that might be inane and pointless.

Seb - Nov 08 2005 12:24

On entering the Natural History Museum through the Earth Galleries door the other week, all our bags were searched- every single pocket, compartment and pencil case. The Security guard wanted to confiscate my friend's nail-scissors. Ah, the terrorist havoc you could wreak in a museum with a pair of nail-scissors!

(All this whilst wearing our student passes that would allow us to use the other entrance with no searches at all- in the end we did just that, nail scissors and all!)

tom t - Nov 08 2005 13:43

I am not enthusiastic about women feeling they must cover themselves, but I do have a problem with a democratic society that lawfully tells a woman she may not put a bit of cloth on her head.

It MIGHT be bad reporting...I think it's fine to say that any person with a face-obscuring covering will be requred to remove it temporarily for identification, whether it be a blaclva knitted by granny, or a hijab.

The Observer article was v interesting - but i found the view of the Dutch mayor v odd indeed - people were fainting with fright? Had he banned punk and goths, by turn?