Imperial bans Hijab

[peacedove]

[quote]Imperial College London has issued a ban on its staff and students wearing hijabs or hoodies in its buildings as part of an effort to improve campus security.[/quote]

education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1648360,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

very interesting, indeed.

Agree with Blu. I'd be very unhappy if someone tried to make me wear one; and very unhappy if generally in the UK we went down the road of banning women who want to wear them from wearing them.

If a women prefers to dress modestly, and to wear a headscarf for cultural or religous reasons then I see no problem with that. But the veil is another matter, covering the face and the eyes I find deeply offensive. It seems to suggest that a woman should not been seen in public, and if I am completly honest I would not have a problem if there were a ban on that.

Spoke to my friend at Imperial College and the issue is that there have been a number of thefts of equipment like projectors and laptops in the last few months so they need to tighten security. They want to be able to identify people easily and there is nothing wrong with that. From what I can understand, as long as someone's face is identifiable and not covered, the authorities do not have a problem with what someone is wearing. The reporting of this by the media has no doubt been sensationalised but interestingly, from what I can see, it's mainly the Muslims kicking up a fuss (persecution complex ).

Peacedove, this is not about Islamophobia - you are being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too sensitive.

From my point of view, Imperial College has the right to set its own rules and regulations and if someone does not like it, there are plenty of other universities in London that you can attend.

As an aside, my 2 cousins use to work in Saudi Arabia as nurses and when they left the British compound, they had to cover up like Saudi women and they were not even allowed to drive. They respected their laws and abided by them. Why can't the hardcore, fundamental, political raving Muslims respect the British rules instead of trying to circumvent them all the time? My parents came from Jamaica in the 1960's and even though they observed some of their cultural traditions, they made sure they adapted to British society, even though many of the indigneous population were hostile to immigrants at that time.

I just get the impression that some Muslims are not interested in equality but superiority.

coribells: "the veil is another matter, covering the face and the eyes I find deeply offensive. It seems to suggest that a woman should not been seen in public, and if I am completly honest I would not have a problem if there were a ban on that. "

I would support lifting of a veil for identification purposes, but I do not see why it should be "offensive" to someone. For some, it is a religious requirement, and there is no reason to limit their practice of wearing it.

For example, the exposure of legs by females is common in the West. In the UK, men showing their legs is rare, to say the least (OK, maybe the Scotts wear skirts sometimes), but should the wearing of skirts and showing of leg be banned because we Muslims find it offensive.

that'll probably be the next move

sorry - flippant I know!

the thing is that you would need people to not were the veil part at all, because its not just the sercurity on the door but also the CCTV cameras that need to see the face of people at all times, ditto for helmet, balacalvas and hoodies which hide the face.

Because it suggests that women should not be seen in public. That is offensive.

It also is meant to be a protection for women, so they wont be attacked(raped) by men. That suggests that men dont have any control and are not responsible for there actions if they see a woman unvieled ( that is offensive to men)

there are cases of muslim women refusing to have identity photographs taken without the Hejab in place. This makes it impossible for colleges and school to make sure that the correct student is taking the examonation (this is particulrly important in colleges of further education where large numbers of students will be taking exams and the invigilators wil not know all the students).

As a science teacher I would have grave resevation is girls wearing floor length, loose sleaves and face covering garments in practicals, for health and safety reasons. And I would feel exactly the same regardless of the reason for the dress.

speedymama: "From my point of view, Imperial College has the right to set its own rules and regulations and if someone does not like it, there are plenty of other universities in London that you can attend."

Imperial is part of a University. Part of the University traditions is "freedom". Perhaps you can have a dress code for "modesty" and "decent" dress, how can you have one against the same?

Security is an issue I can accept, but for that lifting of the veil when required for identification, is good enough. Have we really come to a point when everyone, at all times, has to be monitored through CCTV?

coribells: "it suggests that women should not be seen in public. That is offensive."

IT suggests this to your mind. If the wearing of short skirts, and showing of legs should not suggest to a man that the woman is "available", the wearing of a veil should not suggest repression or "not be seen in public" to you.

There are women who do not want to be seen in public. What right do you have to restrict their freedom to what they think is right for them?

Peacedove - there is no religious requirement to wear the veil.

Peacedove - i'm affraid we do, i work at a uni wehere the departmetn can no longer afford to insure the computers because they are regularly being stolen. Since 90% of my research is generally on my computer i would be livid if someone stole it. i for one am happy with the cctv i have nothing to hide therefore why should it bother me.

i am more up[set at them banning hoodies tbh

martianbishop: "As a science teacher I would have grave resevation is girls wearing floor length".

The problems arise for both boys and girls working in labs and workshops. Why don't you want to ban full-length trousers for mboys, too?

girls can trip on the long dresses, boys dont tend to trip over their trousers. at school hippy style floor length skirts were banned as they were deemed a hazard.

Thank you misdee, you answered the question placed to me perfectly, I agree with you 100%.

Trousers do not get pinned down by other chairs and other people in the same way a floor lenght gown does. And I speak from experience, as I wear both trousers to work and floor lenth gowns to social events. I would never wear the latter to school as it would be a danger both to me and the other people in the lab.

i dont wuite know what the hijab etc is made off, but by looking at the pics i suspect they are lightweight flimsy material which could go up quickly with a bunsen burner about?

Peacedove, when I was at university, the Arab men chased the western women like the world was going to end tomorrow! From my experience, a lot of Muslim men are hyprocrites. They do not find the wearing of skirts and the exposure of women's legs offensive because they can't stop oggling. I remember one guy who had a blond girlfriend and they enjoyed a sexual relationship. When he finished his course, he dumped her and cleared off back to whereever he came from to marry some poor, hijab wearing doormat who no doubt, had to be a virgin.

I myself was chased by some horrible greasy specimen from Algeria and I told him where to go!

Yes, We ban any flowing clothes in the lab. Girls who wear the head scarf can do so as long as it is A. in the school colours of dark blue, drak grey or white and B.tied back for all practical and PE lessons so as not to be a danger. If we had a young postulant nun in the school we would make the same restrictions. This has nothing to do with islamophobia and everything to do with making sure there are no accidents.

Wintersun: "Peacedove - there is no religious requirement to wear the veil."

This is your opinion and I respect your right to have your opinion, but it is just that - your opinion. It is not binding on those who have read the verses and seen the interpretation and the practice of those who were able to interpret it better.

katzguk: "Peacedove - i'm affraid we do, i work at a uni wehere the departmetn can no longer afford to insure the computers because they are regularly being stolen. Since 90% of my research is generally on my computer i would be livid if someone stole it. i for one am happy with the cctv i have nothing to hide therefore why should it bother me."

OK, if that is the case, although I would prefer you proved your case by having a veiled woman identified as a computer thief.

I think looking at this discussion may help understand what the students are thinking:

live.cgcu.net/discussion/?f=2&t=1133

I have seen men trip over their trousers, and I have seen women in jilbabs walking briskly, yet gracefully and with poise.

Jilbabs need not be floor-length.

I have also seen people wearing shorts trip over, but to suggest that a floor lenth dress is not a trip and fall hazard it utter nonsense, and helps detract from some of your more valid point.

we used to roll back shirt sleeves and tie back hair as well.

No hair tied back (male female, inderterminate, Muslin, Hindu, Bhristian, Jewish, Humanist) no practical!

My only interest is making sure that children do not set themselves, or each other on fire, or cover themselves in caustic chemicals.

Peacdove seems to think that waering particular kinds of hijab is more important that avoiding imolation. Well, in my lab I just perfer to keep the kids in one piece.

I listened to a radio show once which discussed the issue of women wearing the veil for religious reasons. The Muslim women who spoke were quite illuminating and the thing that I remember was their comment that many women in this country have started to wear the hijab solely for political reasons. They also said that the Koran does not state that a woman has to be covered from head to toe, just dressed modestly. They also commented about the niqab (full facial veil) and said that the desert Arabs wore these to protect themselves from sandstorms and had nothing to do with religion until it was adopted by some communities as means of subjugating women.

i have just looked online (google images) at the hijab, is the hijab is just the headscarf? the veil seems very OTT to me (just my own opinion, i dont expect you to like it) and can understand the secruity risks and safety with the viel and the floaty dresses. wasnt there a case a year or so back of a girl in luton who wanted to wear the full garb, but the school said no, she was offered an alturnative but took the school to court?