Imperial bans Hijab

[peacedove]

[quote]Imperial College London has issued a ban on its staff and students wearing hijabs or hoodies in its buildings as part of an effort to improve campus security.[/quote]

education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1648360,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

very interesting, indeed.

A woman can divorce a man even if it's not in the nikkah (contract).

oops

So why the need to have it written into contract?

There are different ways to get a divorce.

I find it very difficult to understand how Islam comes to terms with some of the things in the Koran

eg

verse 34 of Surah an-Nisa. The English translation of this verse reads as follows:

"Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

So although it says, first admonish and then don't sleep with them it *does then suggest that then may beat their wives, but only lightly. Huh?

Sorry have real problems with this. Wheras I accept that in this , the injunction is to be initialy retrained, and I'm sure tis was a big step forwars for woamen in the region when the prophet was alive, but this is the ligitimising of beating women, all be it, 'lightly'

Hercules I get it

I'm not very knowledgble so cant make many comments. I know that Muhammad's (pbuh) example to the treatment of women was not violent and Islam gave woman rights by law in a world where noone else did.

Mb you will always lose something in translation. The Prohpet(pbuh) specifically forbade men from hitting women.....

Is that not a reason for a woman to divorce a man?

ooooh, this is stuff i know lots and lots about...... finally all that stuff they taught in re being put to good use. [i went to schoool in saudi arabia

for a man to divorce a woman, all he has to say is the sentence, 'i divorce you' thereafter a waiting period of three months in which he is still liable for all her financial expenses, and she continues to live in his house. during this time, they can get back together, no paperwork involved.if he says it again, on a separate occasion, again the same thing. BUT the third occasion he says it, is final. the only way they can get back then is if she has been married to someone else and that marriag has also ended in divorce. it cannot be a marriage lasting a couple of hours!
the mehr belongs to the wife. regardless of divorce or whose blame it is whatever. it is part of the marriage contract, and should a man die without having paid it to his wife, then it is one of the most important debts tobe paid when he dies. and if he doesnt pay it, thent the marriage contract hasnt been fulfilled. a woman can refuse it, but its up to her.

at the time of the prophet, a very beautiful woman, called zainab, came to the prophet asking for a divorce from her husband. she said her father had married her to him without consulting her wishes, and she didnt like his looks. so he granted the divorce. once she had the divorce, she said, that she was actually happy with him as he was a good man, but she just wanted to make a point. so they go remarried.
i think if any of us said we didnt think our dh was good looking enough, we'd be called shallow! but the prophet was fine with that being grounds for divorce. i cant quote the narrators etc of this hadith, but im fairly sure it is sahih.

okie, the widow giving birth thing may not happen very often, but i was using that to illustrate the fact that women do have power, just a different sort of power. islam doesnt have primogenitor 9sp?) inheritance. its actually quite complicated, but if there is no son, then aman's brothers also inherit, but if there is a son, then they inherit nothing. and in the situation i described, the woman ends up inheiriting twice, once from her husband, and then from her son or daughter. i vaguely remember the fractions of his estate each inherits, but dont quote me.
wife an eighth
a will a third
kids, o, i cant remember, but lots of people get a share, depending on the number of kids, and whether parents are alive or not.

hmmm, mb, i dont know anything about this, will check it out
as far as i know, violence of any sort aint allowed

Buit as I understand it that is the parophets words? Or am I wrong?

And I do realise that tat the time islam gave women many rights that they had no-where else. I just worry very much when a recieved religion , with a text which must be accepted as the divine word of God, with no possibility of error (in the original Arabic) specificaly states that women may be beaten lightly.

It may have been a big step forward at the time, but rather worrying now?

I thought stitch that if it's the woman's fault eg has an affair, then the man can ask for it back but I certainly could be mistaken.

It does have to be read in the original arabic due to misinterpretation. It seems to go against Muhammad (pbuh).

sorry, very mangled spellings? And I'm not being horrible here, this is something which really worries me, this isn't Islam bashing on my part, but a real concern that I have, and I'm happy to have my worries asuaged.....like more than dodgy translation tho if that is possible

hercules, it doesnt matter whose fault it is. mehr is part of the marriage contract. it should be given at the time of the wedding, or very soon afterwards. some couples inthe middle east use it to pay for their wedding, or house etc. the mehr has nothing at all to do with the divorce. culturally i think it tends to be brought to limelight as it is, at least in the subcontinent not usually handed over!

thisshouldgiveananswer

Thanks. I didn't realise that it isnt often handed over. How does that affect the legal status of the marriage?

Hercules if the marriage is ended by the woman for no reason just that she doesn't like her husband for no tangible reason then she may offer her mahr back and end her marriage. This safe guards against a man marrying a woman handing over the (sometimes huge amount) of mahr and then his wife upping and leaving with a substantial amount of money for no reason than that she can.
Generally though women keep the mahr if the marriage ends.

mb, i have checked my copy of the translation, and more or less, thats what it says.
so four steps are suggested, and in the next verse, it suggest arbitration, with both having lawyers present. in the notes, it says
this is inadvisable,. thought permissible and all authorities are unanimous in deprecating any sort of cruelty, even of the nagging kink, as mentioned in the next clause.
tempeer, nagging, sarcasm, speaking at each other in other peoples prescence, reverting to past faults which should be forgiven and forgotten, all this is forbidden.

sorry, but i still find that unaceptable. you can beat them but only a bit?

not on in this day and age imho.

The mahr is one of the things that legalise the marriage contract, a man has to hand over the mahr when his wife asks for it, or when it has been stipulated it will be handed over. In our family the women get their mahr at time of marriage.

read my link

Dont; get me wrong, the rest is laudable, but beating your wife a little is acceptable, and I find that very worrying, in terms of what it says about the realtive rights of men and women

I did Hercules, and althoug it suggests that it might mean 'beat it' or leave it alone, in the first paragarph of your link it saus that the Koran does allow ment to lightly beat their wives under certain circumstances