Imperial bans Hijab

[peacedove]

[quote]Imperial College London has issued a ban on its staff and students wearing hijabs or hoodies in its buildings as part of an effort to improve campus security.[/quote]

education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1648360,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

very interesting, indeed.

misdee: "i dont quite know what the hijab etc is made off, but by looking at the pics i suspect they are lightweight flimsy material which could go up quickly with a bunsen burner about?"

misdee, the hijab is made of cloth the same way a headscarf is made of. The same textiles from which our shirts are made of. It need not be flimsy, and it need not be nylon.

speedymama:

I am sorry that the Arabs you saw chased women and did not behave well with you, but what relevance does this have.

When I was at the Uni, I did not chase any girls, not to say they weren't attractive. And the girls wanted my company. To tell you the truth, a very delectable girl came to my room at night, all invitation, and it was with much difficulty (including fighting with my own urges) that I sent her back to her own room.

Does that mean I should have a low opinion of all West's women?

I have had the pleasure of meeting many people from many nationalities, and religions, and I don't generalise like that.

martianbishop: I think what you do at school labs and PE is sensible.

misdee: "wasnt there a case a year or so back of a girl in luton who wanted to wear the full garb, but the school said no, she was offered an alternative but took the school to court."

The girl was Shabnam, or Shabana, and she wasn't offered any alternative. She won the case in the High Court. The school is appealing in the House of Lords, and the Education Minister is backing the school, wasting public money in fees, IMHO.

she was offer a shalwar kameez.

peacedove - i was not suggesting that it was a veiled women how commited the crimes, more that the uni has ever right to look at the faces of those within its walls, reguardless of how you might chose to cover your face.

Peacedov, she was, the rest of the school's muslim girls wore a shalwar kamise with head scarf and this was considered to be acceptable by the local mulim leaders. Sorry, you have your facts whong

I'll tell you what I found offensive,nay obscene.

The family with five kids who were travelling back with me from Frankfurt to Manchester last week.She wore the works,veil,head scarf,gloves,and thick socks.
Their two boys wore loose casual gear and their three daughters (the youngest of whome was about 5,the oldest 10ish) all wore headscarves.

So a 5 year old girl is sexually provocative is she????
Bloody hell.

PD sooner or later you will start on your Blair is bad Bush is badder speech re Iraq.I agree wholeheartedly.They are greedy selfish neo Imperialist shits.

But.....doesn't mean we then automatically believe that Muslims are saints.I'm trying to think of Islamic countries who are carrying the beacon for human rights.

Iran?
Iraq?
Syria?
Saudi?
Algeria?
Yemen?

Hmmmmm..doesn't convince me.

Off to read my dd a bible story...

shalwar kamees!

well, it would then be interesting to watch the House of Lords debating this issue.

Some Muslims do consider it necessary to have a jilbab, or gown covering the other garments, and you will note that the traditional dress for the Arab men is also a gown (thobe) worn over whatever they are wearing.

As I have said, where safety and security are concerned, relaxation can be made.

So why don't Muslim men consider it necessary to veil their faces, Peacedove?

Fully-veiled women who only have their eyes visible are at risk of vitamin D deficiency because they don't get enough daylight.

moondog: your posts can be summed up as "Islam is trash because Muslims dress their daughters in full-length clothes."

OK moondog, you have that opinion, but how can we weave it into this thread.

PD,do you think it is acceptable to put a five year old into a headscarf?????

PS can't spell, never could. glad you corrected my spelling of a non english word. Shall moondog and I test you on some Welsh words?

never the less you were wrong in your statement that she wasn't offered an alternative and I knew this even if I misspelled the word

I hate seeing little girls in head scarves ... although I'm guessing it's the same as when you see little girls with nailpolish, miniskirts etc. They just want to wear what their mums/big sisters wear.

If Imperial College has just banned veils, not the hijab, I have some sympathy with them.

I was discussing this with a friend from back home, last night (in the context of the French schools), and she is annoyed by the fact that whenever people are concerned about morals and behaviour, they generally "fix" things by changing women's clothing (more modest, no hijab, whatever).

There's a bit "modest apparel" movement in the US, amoung hardcore Christians. Including headscarves.

I grew up in close proximity to Christain missionaries who covered their hear.
They were barking too.

MB..didn't know you were Welsh?!

And yes NQC.....tarty little girls are abhorrent too.

I was hmb in a previous mn incarnation and we've swaped tales of the Principality!

Peacedove,
Can you point me to the part of the Koran that suggests women should wear veils, and cover there faces. My understanding is that women and men are required to dress modestly.
I am genuinely interested.

peacedove - to answer your questions from your previous post:

1. is the ban sensible: probably, yes
2. is it a security issue? well, yes it is, for the same reason that hoodies are a security issue - because people wearing them can avoid being recognised on CCTV.
3. is it islamophobia? I don't think it is. It is just an unfortunate sign of the times.

it'd be nice if everyone who wanted to could wear a hijab. But then it would also be nice if we didn't feel we needed CCTV - I think it's that that's the issue, not the rights and wrongs of the hijab.

What makes you think the headscarf is because otherwise men will be sexually aroused?

Children are dressed in ways their parents like to dress them. I guess the mother took pleasure in dressing her daughter in a headscarf. I find modest dresses on children cute, and I find dressing them up with lipsticka nd nailpolish in bad taste. But I guess with moondog's obsession with Islam having everything to do with sex, we Muslims just cannot do anything right.

sorry MB, I wasn't correcting your spelling. I just wrote down what I wanted to say without looking at your spelling.

coribells: the ulema (scholars) do have a difference of opinion on whether the veil is a requirement, but the following link may be of help:

whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7134&PN=1&TPN=1

SenoraPostrophe:

I will refer you again to the students' views, and experiences of security. If security were an issue, things would have been different, no?

peacedove, I have a book that a Muslim acquaintance gave me, called "women in the shade of Islam" and it says that for modesty (which I take to mean sexual arousal) women should cover their head except the face, and their bodies between the wrists and ankles.

A Muslim friend does not wear a scarf though, because she says that the Koran is open to many interpretations! She is a very religious person, but not in that way, iyswim.

Covering the face is just vanity imo. And it attracts more attention from men!

Seeing as it's a transliteration, with just 437 google hits , I am not sure the rest of the world agrees with your spelling, pd, not that it really matters.

'Shalwar Kameez' scored rather better with 89,300 hits

But actually topping them all is 'Salwar Kameez' with 632,000 hits

Dontcha just love google ?

I don't really see the relevance of several students' sarcy remarks about the high level of security.

don't get me wrong, the ban is probably an over-reaction. But hoods do hinder identification - the fact that some lad in portsmouth got caught anyway doesn't change that.

I really don't think this is islamophobia - to say it is is a bit like saying that any criticism of the israeli government is anti-semitism.

wrt to the students comments below and the natural history museum, the sercurity is less likely to have been about terrorist and more to do with the diamond exhibition in that particular gallery

NN, peace

the link I have given will clear many points.

I tokk modest to mean the opposite of being a show off. Nothing to do with sexual arousal, but then English is not my language, and I am too lazy to study the dictionary.

Covering the face is not vanity, imho.

Some women do feel that this is a religious duty.

PD, interesting that you are conveniently dodging some of the questions like why men are not required to wear the veil?

Does anyone remember the case a few years ago about the Muslim woman in Nigeria who had a child out of wedlock and under Sharia Law was sentenced to death. The father of the child (who was married to someone else), was given a slap on the wrist. Says it all really.