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Imperial bans Hijab

215 replies

peacedove · 24/11/2005 14:53

[quote]Imperial College London has issued a ban on its staff and students wearing hijabs or hoodies in its buildings as part of an effort to improve campus security.[/quote]

education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1648360,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

very interesting, indeed.

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Nightynight · 27/11/2005 11:25

ooh chacha I so agree about the trousers.

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ChaCha · 27/11/2005 09:41

I missed this thread but have just managed to get through most of it. Some very varied and interesting opinions here.

I am a regular MNetter here, I am also a Muslim. I have been practising Islam for a few years - my DH is a convert (he converted 10 years ago before I'd met him) as is my mother. I chose Islam as a way of life and I've never been happier. I certainly would not have left the lifestyle I was living before to end up walking around in a so called 'tent' or being 'oppressed'. No way! People spend all their lives looking for that something they've been searching for, I found it in Islam - and not in the fundamentalist Islamic movement of Saudi Arabia [cringe] but in the peaceful Sufi Islam that has brought me much tranquility & peace. It's not surprising that people have such a distorted view of Islam when what they learn of it is the hardcore, fundamental, Saudi Islam Might I add, founded by after Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703?1792).

As a teacher I agree that the jilbab/long hijab are hazards in certain areas of the school, particulary the lab. Girls should be asked to tuck their hijabs inside a collar or the like or to simply tie to the back of the head in bandana fashion. That is common sense!
As for banning the hijab in public places - well, I'm shocked. It's a simple piece of material covering the hair FGS.
I'll tell you what I'd like to see banned from public places... women wearing trousers that hang off their backsides revealing layers and layers of fat [gross] that bulge over either side..I mean, come on, don't they look in the mirror? I could really go on..but rant over!

I agree with the face covering being banned though. It is a security threat IMHO.

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peacedove · 26/11/2005 10:45

sorry about the strange characters. The post message box showed Arabic, and I thought I could post the Arabic. Unfortunately that did not happen, so I will repost without the Arabic.

For an example of "dharaba" being used in the sense of "telling", see Surah 36 (Yasin), verse 13.

Transliteration:
36:13 Waidrib lahum mathalan ashaba alqaryati ith jaaha almursaloona

Translation of the meanings: (Yusuf Ali):
36:13 Set forth to them, by way of a parable, the (story of) the Companions of the City. Behold!, there came apostles to it.

Translation of the meanings: (quran.nu):
And put forward to them a similitude; the (story of the) dwellers of the town, [It is said that the town was Antioch], when there came Messengers to them.

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peacedove · 26/11/2005 07:48

as an example of "dharaba" being used for saying or telling something, see this verse: (Surah Yasin, verse 13. (36:13)

13. Transliteration: Wa iđrib lahum mathalāan 'aşĥāba al-Qaryati 'idh Jā'ahā al-Mursalūna.

Translation of the meanings: And put forward to them a similitude; the (story of the) dwellers of the town, [It is said that the town was Antioch], when there came Messengers to them.

وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلاً أَصْحَابَ الْقَرْيَةِ إِذْ جَاءهَا الْمُرْسَلُونَ

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peacedove · 26/11/2005 06:34

dharaba can mean two things, to beat, or to talk, to tell In my understanding it means here it is allowed to talk to your wife a little harshly, if she continues to do something that is wrong to do.

Violence was abhorred by the prophet (saw)

A companion complained to the prophet (saw): In Mecca the women were kept under control check by their husbands, but at Madinah the influence of the Madiniites has changed them, and now they do not listen to us, and keep making demands.

The prophet never hit anyone, not a servant, not a wife, not any one.

An Englishman became a Muslim on reading the accounts of the prophet (saw) by his wives. His view was that throughout history, wives have always complained of their husbands, but here was this man who is being praised by ALL his wives, so his claim of being the last prophet must be true.

A woman came to the prophet (saw), and sought his advice on marrying someone. He said: "Why are you considering marrying him. He is known to be a wife-beater."

Those who beat their wives, and think the religion allows it, are wrong. Why and when did it enter the practice of some Muslims, I am not sure of, but I think mot of our ills come from after the fall of Baghdad. Some scholars do allow this, albeit light, and they take it from the story of Job, about the authenticity of which I am not sure.

What happens or happened in Afghanistan or Pakistan or in many Muslim lands is largely

because the scholars did not have access to the original sources. Arabic is not their language, and they learn the interpretation from their particular creeds.

No one in my family, very extended one at that, has ever beaten his wife, but I do know people who do. Mostly they come from villages which have been cut off from education, and which are steeped in village traditions. Education, and the stresses of coping with urban rush, unhiunges them a little. Then there is definitely a streak of the feudal mind seeking control, in some of them.

The death penalty for apostates is also misunderstood. It is applicable when apostacy
exists in conjunction with open rebellion, otherwise to all intenets and purposes, most of us pass through a phase of questioning which can be considered apostacy. If that punishment had been applied, many of us would have been dead.

Islam does not allow partaking of alcohol, so the argument about intoxication an rape is invalid. The charge of drunk when driving is valid, isn't it.

The fundamental difference that we have in approach is that of sovereignty. Islam says man (generic, women are included) was created as a viceroy (not owner, not independent lawmaker) of God.

The West thinks that it has learnt from the mistakes of the past civilisations, and that the road ahead is progress.

We think that mankind goes through cycles of same or similar transgressions, as we are to be tested, before the final judgement.

I have considered and concluded that Allah's words are in our interest, and that I do not accept that everything that democracy or philosophy puts up is in the interest of mankind. You do have the right to take your pick.

These differences do not mean perpetual or civil war.

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:55

lol
i think my mom is definitly the same.

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:38

Stitch, this story will make you laugh. A lebaneese friend of mine married and english man. She was muslim but not very observant. She didn't have her sons circumcised, as she didn't see the need, to the horror of her mum!, both sons ended up having to have it done for medical reasons. She was sure her mum had 'organised it' with the big man upstairs!

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:38

I've been away from mumsnet for a few months and only just come back.

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:37

absolutely not, i think we have done enough heavy serious thinking today!
so you both coming to the meetup tomorrow?

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:36

now i just have to somehow or the other work up some sort of thought process that will let me get completely pissed tomorrow


are you sure you werent sent online by my mummy? keeping me in check?????

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:36

And me a biologist!

lets not do evolution tho, I'm still feeling a bit sick!

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:35

stitch, I have more faith on god than in man too, which is why I worry when one type of 'mankind' ie men are given rights over women that are unequal and non reciprocal. I just can'y 'do' the different but equal thing.

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:35

Snap! I became an RE teacher!

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:34

Stitch, glad to be of service

I find all religion facinating. I practice none of my own and freely admit that all have excellent points. Howvere they frequently suck when it comes to women's equality

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:33

faith mb, faith.

i think i live in a humane society, but the antiterror laws worry me agreat deal. i have to trust the politicos know what they are doing. and quite frankly id rather have more faith in God than man.

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:32

I guess it's like anything. People will chose to interpret things to suit their own purpose. Dreadful things have been done in the name of Islam that contradict it's key principles.

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:32

i havent thought this much about my religion for a long long time, (my mom despairs of me!)
thank you mb, for making me think about my faith so much

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:31

True hercules, but the people who posted the link you made, seem to think that the first translation is correct.

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:31

BTW I'm not a Muslim.

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:30

So why is that text there?

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stitch · 25/11/2005 19:30

mb, theres another verse somewhere in the quran that talks about marrying a slave if she gets pregnant, i cant quote surah, and verse number to you, as i am not as knowledgable as i pretend to be, but i remember this really worried me, as sex outside marriage is a big nono.
mom tried to explain it tome, and i didnt find her explanation satisfactory. it was to do withthe fact that slave didnt mean the same thing as it did in the american south, which is the meaning we all associate it with. and something about this being after a time of war, and lots of widows about..... i found it unsatisfactory as an explanation.

but i trust in God, so have to accept that he knows what he is doing, or it all falls to bits

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:30

But if the second translation is the right one then where is the contradiction?

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:30

(ps I have similar worries about the Epistles of Paul !)

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hercules · 25/11/2005 19:29

But there isnt the right. Beating is forbidden. Muhammad (pbuh) never did this and spoke against it.

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Blandmum · 25/11/2005 19:29

True, hercules, but doesn't that one worry or upset you at all? and how do crtracdictions stand withing a text which is seen as error free?

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