Shamima Begum loses appeal

[TheRedBalloon]

Just seen that the Supreme Court have ruled that she cannot return to the UK, her Appeal has been unsuccessful.

[Wroxie]

If Shamima was called Louise Smith and she'd gone to America to fight with a white supremacist terror organisation (which is not outside of the realm of 'stuff that could happen'- tonnes of people in the UK have been sucked into the q-anon bullshit which is at its core an ultra-right white supremacist group that shares members with reactionary militia groups) - would she be stripped of citizenship? Of course she fucking wouldn't. White Britons don't see Asians as citizens with the same rights. Even when they were born here. That's become blatantly clear.

[Andante57]

Has Shamima Begum now run out of options or are there further appeals she can apply for?

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

I just think that is awful. She was radicalised as a child and nobody protected her including her family.
Young teens make all kinds of stupid mistakes which they can regret later on. I don't see all of them being stripped of their citizenship.
If someone is officially a child when radicalised, we're not talking a bloke in his 20's they should be allowed another chance. Disgusting.

[TheRedBalloon]

I'm not sure if she has any further recourse to appeal, maybe to the ECHR? I find it terrifying that she can be stripped of her citizenship, she was a child when she was groomed by this evil organisation.

[Saywhatyoumeanandmeanwhatyousa]

Well, I’ll be flamed for this, but I agree with the Supreme Court’s assertion that “the Court of Appeal had "mistakenly believed that, when an individual's right to have a fair hearing... came into conflict with the requirements of national security, her right to a fair hearing must prevail."”

[PinkyParrot]

A big warning to others. It's for the best (for the others who now won't follow her).

[Thepilotlightsgoneout]

Difficult one. I see both sides of the argument to be honest and don’t really know what I think.

Helpful post, I know

[cuddlymunchkin]

I think it's a good result.

[OverTheRainbow88]

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

Yea, I’m the same. If I was pushed and I had to choose I would agree with the ruling though

[fluffyegg]

@cuddlymunchkin

I think it's a good result.

Agreed!

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

I thought the issue wasn't so much that she had been radicalised, but that she was unrepentant and regarded as a terror threat.

[zafferana]

@PinkyParrot

A big warning to others. It's for the best (for the others who now won't follow her).

I think this is the point - as a deterrent - pretty rough for though to be held up as an example.

As for saying that if she was white and British she'd have been allowed back, I dunno. The govt have take a VERY hard line with anyone who's joined ISIS. Look at the case of Jihadi Jack - they've done nothing to help him and prosecuted his parents for sending him a couple of hundred quid.

[Iceskatingfan]

I have such mixed emotions about this case. On the one hand I do have some sympathy with someone who was groomed as a minor into extremist ideology to do what she did, and there is no evidence that she was directly or personally involved in any particularly heinous acts. Can’t help but feel a little bit sorry for someone who has lost 3 children at such a young age too. On the other hand she went of her own free will and stayed right to the bitter end at Baghuz when she was no longer a minor, and hasn’t come across as at all remorseful in interviews. And ISIS were to me pure evil and particularly barbaric in their actions, affording nobody the level of consideration she is asking for, and she was at the end of the day complicit in what they did when no longer a minor. I also feel frustrated that she got legal aid with her case when I personally could not get legal aid to take my abusive ex to court over child custody to protect my child, when I did not ask to be in such a situation. Having said all that, I do understand why she got legal aid in terms of the principle of law and I do completely disagree with her being stripped of citizenship. If for no other reason than pragmatically as I think that sort of thing just creates a group of ostracised ex-ISIS members together in Syria or Iraq with an axe to grind against the UK which doesn’t bode well for the future. She is British. It’s not fair to land Syria with the problems of our own creation (or attempt to land it on Bangladesh either). I also think it is appalling that her completely innocent young child at least was not brought back to the UK, and was left to die in a camp in Syria. I understand it wouldn’t go down well with the general public and that it would cost a lot etc. but I personally think they should have brought her straight back to the UK to be tried and sentenced and hopefully jailed for life here while trying to deradicise her. I do agree with a PP who said if white Louise Smith went to fight for a far right organisation this would not happen, especially if she had been a minor at the time of getting sucked into it.

[springdale1]

@Shehasadiamondinthesky She is a woman in her twenties though, not a teenager anymore. She is just as capable of carrying out acts of terror as anyone else. There would be a huge public cost in monitoring her if she did come back, into the millions I’d imagine.

She can still fight her case for citizenship, just not from this country. I’m pleased the courts decided the security of the country was more important. She’s clearly said she doesn’t regret travelling there in interviews, she hasn’t apologised - just said she enjoyed it and that she only didn’t enjoy it towards the end when ISIS fell.

[MarieFromStTropez]

I thought the issue wasn't so much that she had been radicalised, but that she was unrepentant and regarded as a terror threat.

Exactly this. And to those who are supporting her on this thread, would you feel the same if one of your DC was killed by a terrorist? I bet you wouldn’t.

My only concern is why should Syria have to keep these people?

[Azif]

@Wroxie

If Shamima was called Louise Smith and she'd gone to America to fight with a white supremacist terror organisation (which is not outside of the realm of 'stuff that could happen'- tonnes of people in the UK have been sucked into the q-anon bullshit which is at its core an ultra-right white supremacist group that shares members with reactionary militia groups) - would she be stripped of citizenship? Of course she fucking wouldn't. White Britons don't see Asians as citizens with the same rights. Even when they were born here. That's become blatantly clear.

Really?? What a load of rubbish and actually very derogatory of white people

[Numicon]

Good. Anyone who smirks at the idea of beheadings can stay the fuck away.

[snowcobra]

I completely agree with the ruling. She shows no remorse, and presents a threat to national security.

[RedGoldAndGreene]

I read that it's extremely rare for people who have been radicalised to repent and really change their thinking. She hasn't publicly shown any remorse as far as I know so it's hard to sympathise that she was groomed like say children who are victims of County Lines.

[WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants]

Good.

Fir anyone who thinks it's the wrong decision...

Have you heard the deplorable views she still holds? She's not sorry, she doesn't regret her behaviour (have you even read about what she's done??)

I don't bloody well want her in the UK

[KatherineJaneway]

@cuddlymunchkin

I think it's a good result.

Me too!

[Tempusfudgeit]

She's only lost her case to have her citizenship appeal heard in this country (since they don't have the internet/telephones where she is?!) Her appeal will still go ahead, and sadly probably be successful.

[Mintjulia]

SB hasn't lost her right to appeal her loss of citizenship. She has had her request to return to the UK to fight that appeal refused.

She now has three options. She can leave others to fight her appeal for her or, more likely, she will negotiate to be allowed access to her lawyers in Syria, either in the refugee camp or in another agreed venue. Or she can pause her citizenship appeal until she is in a more stable environment.

It's a difficult one. She was mature enough to take the decisions she did. As an unrepentant adult, she may still present a threat.

[DareIask]

Too bloody right it's the right decision

[RedGoldAndGreene]

There is a teenager in the US who was arrested alongside his mother for storming the Capitol and I don't feel sympathy that he faces prison tbh