Shamima Begum loses appeal

[TheRedBalloon]

Just seen that the Supreme Court have ruled that she cannot return to the UK, her Appeal has been unsuccessful.

I always thought this may be the case. Some people really are gullible. I remember posting to that effect when there was a mass outpouring of sympathy for her on here

I agree Coronals. Almost everyone took it as fact that these children were hers and anyone who doubted was slated. A bit like anyone who doubted Carl Beech.

@SirGawain

Has Shamima Begum now run out of options or are there further appeals she can apply for?

Yes she has. The Supreme Court is the highest court in the UK and legally speaking there can be no appeal. There word is quite literally Law.

This is not quite right. She can take her case to the ECtHR in Strasbourg.

She was completely unrepentant about her actions, Isis and their actions, thought the Manchester bombing was ok

I have no sympathy she knew, even at 15 ,that what she was doing was wrong, so now she finds another way to fight her case for lose of citizenship, as it should be

@Wroxie

If Shamima was called Louise Smith and she'd gone to America to fight with a white supremacist terror organisation (which is not outside of the realm of 'stuff that could happen'- tonnes of people in the UK have been sucked into the q-anon bullshit which is at its core an ultra-right white supremacist group that shares members with reactionary militia groups) - would she be stripped of citizenship? Of course she fucking wouldn't. White Britons don't see Asians as citizens with the same rights. Even when they were born here. That's become blatantly clear.

What a load of unsubstantiated bollocks this is.

I agree with the ruling. She wasn't remorseful for her actions and we cannot allow a precedent to be set which essentially excuses terrorist activity on the basis of immaturity and naivety. It's a very dangerous precedent to set.

Great. She showed no signs of any remorse and the taxpayers shouldn't spend any more money on various protections her return would require

Do i have sympathy with the 15 year old girl who was probably groomed......yes i do.
Do i have sympathy with the 20 something woman who doesn't really regret what she has done and it still a threat to the UK.....not in the slightest.

You cant change what has been done. Yes she was a child / minor when this happened but she isn't any more and as an adult must be held to account for her actions and bear the consequences of them.

@gildalilly

This is shocking. I can't believe we can just abandon a citizen. She was a child.

WAS a child, now an adult who still DGAF. In which case I’m all for her abandonment.

@Andante57

Is it known why her 3 children died? Do we know for certain that they existed?

They died because they were born to a very young woman living in a war zone with no medical facilities, poor infrastructure and no access to primary health care. Yes they existed. Short, sad, distressing lives.

I think the right decision has been made, if she was allowed back into the country to plead her case it would have been almost impossible to then deport her since she doesn’t have dual citizenship. She can still continue her legal fight, though admittedly it will be almost impossible to win.

I do feel sorry for her though, despite her despicable views . Fifteen year olds were deliberately targeted and groomed by sophisticated and determined agents looking to recruit naive children. Young teens with immature brains are particularly susceptible to flattery and idealistic propaganda as ISIS recruiters well know. I always remember the fact that the three girls stopped off in Boots as they went through the airport. and what did they buy? Hair removal products. They had been sold a dream involving romantic love with young jihadis and wanted to look beautiful. Just like millions of innocent 15 year old girls who spend hours in their bedrooms taking the perfect selfie and dreaming of life as an influencer, but with a healthy dose of religious bigotry and hate thrown into the mix. They didn’t stand a chance.

I’ve got no real sympathy for her but I don’t see why she should be Bangladesh’s problem rather than ours.

@Wroxie

If Shamima was called Louise Smith and she'd gone to America to fight with a white supremacist terror organisation (which is not outside of the realm of 'stuff that could happen'- tonnes of people in the UK have been sucked into the q-anon bullshit which is at its core an ultra-right white supremacist group that shares members with reactionary militia groups) - would she be stripped of citizenship? Of course she fucking wouldn't. White Britons don't see Asians as citizens with the same rights. Even when they were born here. That's become blatantly clear.

I have British citizenship. I don’t have Israeli citizenship but I am entitled to it. If I ran off to the Middle East (or any part of the world) to participate in a horrific terrorist self-proclaimed state that raped, maimed, tortured and killed people in unconscionable ways and on an industrial scale, I wouldn’t expect to be allowed back here and I would fully expect to lose my U.K. citizenship.

I find it hard to see why anyone else would take issue with that and I wouldn’t attribute it to anti-semitism if it happened.

Inflammatory blanket statements like “White Britons don’t see [X group] as citizens with the same rights is ridiculous, inflammatory and works against racial harmony in the UK.

If Shamima Begum had no claim to an alternate citizenship they would have had to allow her return.

Jack Letts has been treated in the exact same way that Shamima has, despite being male, white and firmly middle class.

It’s just about doing everything possible to reduce the number of radicalised terrorists coming back into the U.K.

For those posters bringing race/ethnicity into this ruling and suggesting the outcome would be different if she were white, please get a bloody grip on yourselves.

This woman is guilty of the highest level of terrorist atrocity and represents a massive threat to peace and stability. It doesn’t matter a shiny shite what colour she is, her crimes are hardly akin to “white” teenagers getting drunk and disorderly abroad or even trafficking drugs. Whoever suggested that needs a bloody reality check.

If she was a white far-right terrorist the likelihood is she would NOT have been treated any less severely.

She was a child who was groomed not by one individual but by a massive organisation who are trained in manipulating people to believe what they’re doing is right - in that sense I feel that it’s our duty to bring back and help one of our own.

I think the idea of you made your bed so you lie in it can be quite outdated - would we say this to a victim of domestic abuse because they married that man so should suck it up.

However I do think by her not being successful actually sends a strong message to others who are like her and would hope to one day come back so in that sense it is a good thing.

I wonder what the evidence was of the threat to national security? It's difficult to believe that she really would present much of a threat, given that she seems to be a not very bright young girl who presumably would either be put in prison on her return and would have every single step monitored by security services.

White Britons don't see Asians as citizens with the same rights. Even when they were born here

Bullshit. Some people - and hue / ethnicity rarely has anything to do with it - don't see or respect the rights of others. That's a universal truth - as true of certain people of Asian descent as it is of some white Britons. I mean, ISIS are such a shining example of respect for human rights in any country of the world? And grooming children isn't an activity solely undertaken by ISIS, or by white people, is it?

As a white Briton, my personal opinion, based on what little I know (because very few people know the truth about any of this), is that I believe it is inconceivable that we cannot securely manage one young woman, whoever she is. I suspect that the real issue is that if she lost her citizenship appeal, what are we supposed to do with her, as there doesn't seem to be a list of countries willing to take her. And that is why they don't want her back - win or lose we are stuck with her. Probably the only way out of this mess is for some nice third party country to step in and take her, but even Canada (who often do this sort of thing) don't seem willing to come forward.

There are things we are told about her that make it hard to have sympathy, but we also don't know how much of that is true. The one thing that we do know is true is that we are talking about a 14/ 15 year old girl who was groomed, and the abuse that goes alongside that grooming - whether she recognised it as abuse or not - does mean that it scars people and they don't always turn out "nice". Not an excuse, but possibly an explanation. I think that one way or another, she deserves a chance to speak, and she deserves a chance to change.

Result.

Incidentally, as far as I can see on an initial reading this is a judgement only on whether her appeal against the decision to deprive her of British citizenship can be fairly conducted without needing to give her leave to enter the UK for the hearing. In other words the Supreme Court has decided that that appeal can be conducted without her being in this country. But the question of whether the deprivation decision itself is right or wrong is still open to challenge.

So what happens to Jack Letts and Shamima?
I googled Jack Letts and it said that he’d had his British citizenship revoked so presumably he’s allowed into Canada?
Otherwise do Jack and Shamima just stay in their camps indefinitely?

I only disagree in the sense that if she was born and raised in Britain, she is Britain's problem.

**I have British citizenship. I don’t have Israeli citizenship but I am entitled to it. If I ran off to the Middle East (or any part of the world) to participate in a horrific terrorist self-proclaimed state that raped, maimed, tortured and killed people in unconscionable ways and on an industrial scale, I wouldn’t expect to be allowed back here and I would fully expect to lose my U.K. citizenship.

I find it hard to see why anyone else would take issue with that and I wouldn’t attribute it to anti-semitism if it happened.

Inflammatory blanket statements like “White Britons don’t see [X group] as citizens with the same rights is ridiculous, inflammatory and works against racial harmony in the UK.

If Shamima Begum had no claim to an alternate citizenship they would have had to allow her return.

Jack Letts has been treated in the exact same way that Shamima has, despite being male, white and firmly middle class.

It’s just about doing everything possible to reduce the number of radicalised terrorists coming back into the U.K**

@RickiTarr

👏👏 great post

It would be a massive threat to security even if she came back and never left prison, which lets face it wouldn't happen in the uk.

I wouldn't want to live next door to her, why should anyone else. She is not the 15 year old who left here.

My friend was murdered by terrorists while doing charity work, they are a truly evil group of people all of whom have been radicalised at some point, do we have to give everyone a second chance no matter how dangerous they could be?

The right decision! She comes across as in no way sorry for what she's done in the videos. May others thinking about following in her footsteps take note.

"I think the idea of you made your bed so you lie in it can be quite outdated - would we say this to a victim of domestic abuse because they married that man so should suck it up."

I don't think a domestic abuse victim is comparable and it's actually quite insulting to domestic abuse victims to insinuate that.

She went along with an ideology that believe it's ok to blow up kids and chop people's heads off, who rape women and like to throw gay people off of buildings all in the name of their idea of religion.

Definitely not comparible to a victim of domestic abuse who doesn't share disgusting, inhumane views like this.

@Andante57

So what happens to Jack Letts and Shamima? I googled Jack Letts and it said that he’d had his British citizenship revoked so presumably he’s allowed into Canada? Otherwise do Jack and Shamima just stay in their camps indefinitely?

Well they’re not being hanged at Nuremberg, or being put on death row in the US, and then not being burnt alive in cages, or thrown off buildings to their deaths, or beheaded.

So comparatively, and considering their affiliations, a refugee camp is humane enough for them.

I think of her as Britain’s problem. I don’t agree with anything that she’s done but I think she should be dealt with by Britain rather than pushed onto Syria.

This.

"Right decision but I do hope the same decision is made when white British kids do illegal stuff abroad. Murder, high profile criminal activities (eg human trafficking / drugs / scams) etc etc"

You think people who commit fraud should not be able to return to the uk?