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Human rights
Original poster

Shamima Begum loses appeal

417 replies

TheRedBalloon · 26/02/2021 10:47

Just seen that the Supreme Court have ruled that she cannot return to the UK, her Appeal has been unsuccessful.

OP posts:
Numicon · 26/02/2021 15:30

we do not EVER deport people to a third country where they might face the death sentence

We haven't deported her anywhere. She left all by herself. She won't apply for her Bangladeshi citizenship as they will hang her. She has made herself stateless.

AlternativePerspective · 26/02/2021 15:31

I have slightly mixed views on this.

I have no sympathy for what she did. Fifteen is old enough to know right from wrong, the James Bulger killers were ten and no-one seemed to have a problem with them being tried as adults and jailed so quite why she should be sympathised with is beyond me. I also don’t believe there were ever any babies. Just too much of a coincidence that the one apparently died just after she’d been discovered etc etc etc.

Added to which she has shown no remorse and still sympathises with isis and therefore clearly she is still a threat.

But on the other hand she is clearly being made an example of, since many many others have come back before now so why is she different?

If anything these terrorists should be brought back and locked up for life.

sqirrelfriends · 26/02/2021 15:34

I think it was the right decision, they need to show that there is no coming back from joining a terrorist organisation. She may have been a child but she wasn't 12, she knew what she was doing.

I would feel the same if she happened to be white.

Viviennemary · 26/02/2021 15:35

I do feel a bit sorry for her under the circumstances. She hasn't personally harmed anyone. Not sure if there were three babies who all died. Nevertheless its absulutely the right decision.

Stratfordplace · 26/02/2021 15:35

She’s a terrorist, supports terrorism and is unrepentant. Thankfully normal people will hopefully be protected by this decision.
She knew what she was doing.

Spidey66 · 26/02/2021 15:37

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

Difficult one. I see both sides of the argument to be honest and don’t really know what I think.

Helpful post, I know Grin

I know exactly what you mean!

On the one hand she joined a terrorist organisation, but she was very young and radical8sed.

We call do stupid things when we're young and think we know it all.

RickiTarr · 26/02/2021 15:39

@Numicon

we do not EVER deport people to a third country where they might face the death sentence

We haven't deported her anywhere. She left all by herself. She won't apply for her Bangladeshi citizenship as they will hang her. She has made herself stateless.

Yep this.

The two surviving “Beatles” have now been passed to the US too, on a deal that they won’t be executed. A prospective lifetime sentence in a Supermax seems reasonable for their crimes.

More so than many of the American prisoners and their much lesser crimes.

Loopyloututu2 · 26/02/2021 15:39

I thought she still wouldn’t denounce isis? And was still unapologetic and making excuses for her actions? Apologies if I’m wrong but it was my belief her lack of taking any responsibility was part of the reason she wont be allowed back?

bushhbb · 26/02/2021 15:41

If this was a 15yo white make radicalised by a neo nazi group nobody would be calling such a person a victim.

Wanting her back to face actual justice? Fair enough. But the excusing and misdirected anger is just shameful.

For most people, this has less to with her skin colour, age or sex and more to do with the fact she had ZERO remorse, even in the refugee camp.

Had isis still been up and running she's still be there, and had she had access to any of you, you'd be killed.

RickiTarr · 26/02/2021 15:43

But on the other hand she is clearly being made an example of, since many many others have come back before now so why is she different?

She and Jack Letts are different because they have recourse to another citizenship. The legislation won’t allow even the worst terroris tea to be left stateless.

However Begum & Letts aren’t the only two, just the most high-profile, complaining loudest and appealing/negotiating most.

Numicon · 26/02/2021 15:45

If a white Nazi took himself off to a third world country to start a Nazi-state, then I can see us doing exactly the same thing.

Mulhollandmagoo · 26/02/2021 15:45

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

Difficult one. I see both sides of the argument to be honest and don’t really know what I think.

Helpful post, I know Grin

Same!!!! I fully understand why this decision has been made with regards to public safety and it would have been a huge risk to allow her to return, but she was 15, she was a naïve kid who was radicalised! It's a really hard one...I get why they haven't allowed her to return, but I really can't be overjoyed about it either
jennytheonionslayer · 26/02/2021 15:49

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toocold54 · 26/02/2021 15:49

James Bulger killers were ten and no-one seemed to have a problem with them being tried as adults and jailed so quite why she should be sympathised with is beyond me.

This is a good point.

Although they were put in a young offenders institute and ‘rehabilitated’ and let out at 18 and were given anonymity. Similar to the two teenagers who tortured and murdered a women.
Yes they are all being punished too but not as badly as she is. The girls have a 15 year sentence so afterwards they are free to live their lives.

itsgettingwierd · 26/02/2021 15:50

The lack of remorse has been my issue with this case too.

There always had to be a line somewhere and now it's been drawn.

MrsBotibolsCruise · 26/02/2021 15:51

She’s being made the perfect poster-girl/ambassador for ISIS when they do eventually reform. Loads of publicity, notoriety, staunchly unrepentant, portraying herself as a hard-done-by victim of the British establishment. Who else better to lead them in a fresh campaign against the west?

Bringing her back promptly and without fuss and letting her serve time at her majesty’s pleasure would better serve the memory of victims of the Islamic state. Erase her name. Remember theirs.

Fluffycloudland77 · 26/02/2021 15:51

I don’t see it as a bad result either, I feel the same about Jack Letts too.

Extremism in any form is abhorrent.

Moondust001 · 26/02/2021 15:53

@Numicon

we do not EVER deport people to a third country where they might face the death sentence

We haven't deported her anywhere. She left all by herself. She won't apply for her Bangladeshi citizenship as they will hang her. She has made herself stateless.

You have missed the point. She didn't have Bangladeshi citizenship and under international law the UK could not remove her citizenship UNLESS she had another citizenship, which she did not. So to then apply for citizenship of a country that she did not have knowing that she would face the death penalty under their law is tantamount to the same thing. But you are right - she left all by herself. AS A MINOR.

So, and this is going to piss off a lot of people, but what the hell... all those girls under the age of 16 who were groomed by gangs of men for sex - did they not know what they were doing? Were the men right that they were nothing but whores? Of course they were not. Those children were groomed and abused and no matter what they knew about "right and wrong" we protect them as minors who were in need of protection. If that is true then a young girl groomed and radicalised is in need of the same protection. But I can see that hatred and spite rules this debate, not compassion, understanding, or even fairness.

Moondust001 · 26/02/2021 15:55

James Bulger killers were ten and no-one seemed to have a problem with them being tried as adults and jailed so quite why she should be sympathised with is beyond me.

Oh that isn't true. Lots of people had a problem with trying 10 year olds as adults. And still do.

CuteOrangeElephant · 26/02/2021 15:55

For everyone who is saying this is the best for the public, have some thoughts for the poor Syrians. Not only have ISIS scum completely devastated their country, they are now also stuck with them.

AlternativePerspective · 26/02/2021 16:02

Numicon I don’t think those girls groomed for sex were talked into murder were they? They were victims in their own right because they were groomed specifically for the satisfaction of others. They didn’t adopt abhorrent views at the end of it all.

SB left to be a terrorist. To marry a terrorist, because she believed in the callings of isis. And while at 15 if she’d come back there could be some understanding of the fact that she was drawn into isis, she is now an adult, and still holds the views she did then, and is responsible for holding those views now

Stratfordplace · 26/02/2021 16:03

Her and her two friends travelled abroad at age 15 to join a terrorist organisation. This took planning and skill, not to mention funds.

She is not, and never has been, a victim. I feel for her dead children who died of malnourishment.

AlternativePerspective · 26/02/2021 16:03

It’s not even as if she’s pretended to be remorseful in order to come back to the UK. She’s upheld her views even though she knows that could mean she has to remain there for the rest of her life.

ginswinger · 26/02/2021 16:06

If I was held eternally accountable as an adult for every stupid thing I did as a 15 year old, that would be a frightening prospect

StarlightandSunlight · 26/02/2021 16:09

To me this just seems a delaying tactic. If the Government were sure that they would win their case against the legality of revoking her citizenship then wouldn't they want it heard? Purely so it would be an end to the matter