DD able to but didn't try for Oxford : slap me

[DrumSenseintoMe]

So, I feel sad and a little bit of failure because DD didn't want to try for Oxford.
Now I can see her there it's charming and beautiful and cosy within each college but also connected to a whole . So you get the best of all worlds.
It's very close to where we live about 30 miles away !
She didn't want to go far . She looked at Durham but feels it's too far.
It's much much cheaper than anywhere else for accommodation by a very long shot , 3 / 4 grand cheaper . On the open days students told us of endless travel grants etc . There are so many opportunities.
Everything is massively subsidized.
I can't help but feel to do so well at school for all these years and work so hard and get predicted three a stars and win subject prizes and not even try, is sad.

What put her off was the talk of 5 week burn out and she said she couldn't cope with an essay a week.
The students we spoke to said it's a thing and a myth and they do stuff on week 5 to cheer people up !

I'm being stupid I know I am. Its just so close ,so cheap so romanticised, so many amazing oppsritnies with the choirs ,drama ,travel grants money chucked at them ,beautlful stunning grounds ,characterful accommodation and interesting international students.

Of course I want her to be happy and enjoy her time but I do think she would have enjoyed it.

Talk sense into me. Btw I've 100 per cent backed her choice talked it up and I genuinely like it and have not let her know my secret disappointment.

what year is she? Is she predicted those grades? Did she get them?

I went to Oxbridge. I also have degrees from two other universities so I feel I can reasonably compare. It is not for everyone, the terms and short and intense, there is much more work and the tutorial/supervision (small group teaching) system is tough if you’re not naturally confident. I know people who I met there who were very smart but struggled with the way the teaching is done and it negatively impacted their mental health. I would honestly try to flip this around and be proud that your child made an informed choice about what is right for her.

Also they are not cheap! Sure there are grants etc but living costs are expensive (they are expensive cities) plus a lot of your peers are from wealthy families (privately educated) so the nights out were not exactly a cheap pint in Wetherspoons, plus people do expensive travel and go skiing and so on. The accommodation is subsidised but also usually only provided for the 8 weeks of term time (so 32 weeks a year) and you have to clear out in between times. So for 20 weeks you don’t have accommodation hence it’s cheaper. Additionally you are not allowed to work in term time (because there isn’t time, which is true) but it makes it hard if you don’t come from money.

Not everyone who has the ability to try for Oxford tries for Oxford, op.
It’s not everyone’s dream.

You really shouldn’t feel like a failure. DS isn’t applying, I was disappointed, but ultimately it’s his choice, and even if he’d applied he might not have got in. I don’t feel like a failure at all - I’m proud of him that he has a clear idea of what he wants from Uni and where appeals to him.

I went to Oxford albeit a million years ago and it was two essays a week and, in the first year, a translation a week. When we studied literature we would cover an author a week (Shakespeare and Milton excepted) which required having read all or most of their work plus voluminous secondary reading. Friends studying at good redbrick and Russell Group universities had a much smaller workload. It’s not for everyone. I was very academic (despite any typos here) and I did well but I was ill with gastritis every time we broke up at end of term. A friend from my comp who obtained 13 A grades at O-level, some of which he self-studied for, and 4 grade As in his maths and science A-level subjects when that was the highest grade available, really struggled during his first year as a NATSCI at Cambridge.

DD tried for Cambridge (pushy father) but failed to get in and I honestly think it would have been wrong for her. She went to a Russell Group university and straight on to a prestigious graduate training programme from which she progressed to a rewarding and remunerative career.

Let it go and enjoy watching and supporting your daughter during these exciting and important years.

I think you may have a romanticised view of Oxford tbh. It is lovely but when you are a student there it is very hard work and very intense. Not everyone can deal well with the tutorial system and having their work critiqued in front of them.

Your post focuses on the cheap accommodation and how beautiful it is – fair enough but the student has to want to be there and has to be happy with the way you study there – at Ox and Cambs more than other universities IMHO.

It is up to her surely. Where does she want to apply to? And to study what? Oxford is not going to be the best place for every subject tbh.

Btw I am not sure how much accomm is at Oxford, but it cannot be £3-4k cheaper than all accommodation everywhere else; while plenty of unis have halls costing £8k+, there are also a number of unis with accommodation options costing £4-6k. A glance at the Oxford uni website shows that its colleges cost around that. So, yes, potentially £3k less than lots of places, but not everywhere. Both my DC paid £5k or less for their uni halls in their first year, in the last 3-5 years.

Oxbridge doesn't suit everyone. Just because someone can apply doesn't mean they should.
It sounds like your DD had a clear idea of what she wanted from her university experience and Oxbridge just wasn't it.

Sorry accommodation 24 weeks per year (I remember we got a bit of a grace period before and after; might have been more like 30 weeks all in) but definitely was not the full year if you’re living in college, as people do in the first year.

I went to Oxford. Got a decent degree but never felt at home there as a slightly awkward, not sporty state school kid. Didn’t enjoy my degree at all, the teaching and tutorial system was hit and miss (being a great academic does not necessarily make you a great teacher - of course there were exceptions). Although I got my 2.1 in the end, looking back I wish that I had gone to a “normal” uni (I would have gone to York if I hadnt been told “not to look a gift horse in the mouth” when I got into Oxford), I think I would have had a much better time academically and socially. Academic pressure can be intense - I nearly had a breakdown before finals, one girl on my course ( one of the brightest in the year) tragically died by suicide after first year exams.

Professionally having Oxford on the CV obviously doesn’t hurt but I think I would have done equally well had I gone somewhere that I actually enjoyed, and now I don’t give a monkeys what university someone has on their CV (a lot of recruitment is blind now anyway, as it should be). I have no knowledge of all the grants etc which you are talking about, it certainly wasn’t a thing I encountered.

Sounds like your daughter knows herself well and has made the best decision for her. I certainly am not encouraging my kids down the Oxbridge route - if they really want to of course it is up to them, but I wouldn’t aspire to it for them.

I didn't know aspects of Oxford were so heavily subsidised? Why is that, when many who go are very rich already?

My brother rejected Oxford. It’s simply not for everyone. It’s certainly not held him back, he’s INCREDIBLY successful!
My daughter did a few days taster session at Oxford, can’t remember what it was officially called. She was recommended by her school. She also hated it. Went to a different uni and doing really well in her career.

It's not public money. It's a very rich university and owns pretty much the entire city (slight exaggeration...)

"have not let her know my secret disappointment" @DrumSenseintoMe

I wonder if part of it is "BIRG", you are now unable to Bask In Reflected Glory?

Please take heed, digest and process the wise post from @Yellowrose225588

Your daughter's happiness is paramount, as you rightfully acknowledge

A lot of colleges own land elsewhere too. My husband did an LLM at Jesus, Cambridge and Salmon en Croute was a frequent dish at formal halls which we were told was because the salmon came from a a Scottish property owned by the College.

this. She is very sensible to have some foresight, know who she is and how she copes, and has chosen to safeguard her own mental health. She needs to have a positive uni experience and not end up hating it.

It isn’t sad at all. It’s a very sensible decision that many many more should take. My dd likes the course structure and year structure at Bath a lot more. But is applying to Oxford and jumping through all their stupid hoops because she feels that this application is expected of her. Teachers have all told her to apply etc. Acceptance rate for her course is something like 1 in 20. Complete waste of time IMO - prepping for entrance exam, prepping for interview without knowing whether they are giving you one. I wish she could just get on with her A levels and not bother with Oxford.

I went to Cambridge for my undergraduate degree and it was fine. It is hard work. I think looking back I’d have preferred to go somewhere less pressured for undergrad and maybe Oxbridge for postgrad.

Thanks everyone some very wise words

But also talk of salmon en croute appeals 🤣.it's been a huge eye opener how the colleges are so rich .
They own vast assets all over I thought st Johns Oxford was rich assets around 77 million ? But it's put in the shade by some Cambridge ones which are Uber wealthy

I didn't realise there was a term for it Birg but yes that's definatly a part of it
Some family members were nasty about DH and and i when dd born so would have been a nice reflected glory

Her school never approached her or encouraged her a friend with son at private was approached and put on talented and gifted program and taken on a three day course to visit and learn about the application proceeds.

@LightDrizzle well, I hoped she would take English lit at a level because she's an incredible reader she's read so many classics including dosetosky spelling !! Russian , lots of Tolstoy as well as hardy ,dickens and tons more age 15 she had already read the books on the GCSE list !
Wouldn't touch it at a level because she said face killed her love of English
Isn't that awful ??

I think you are putting together lots of very separate things.

1. You feel it reflects on you what your DD does in life. This one is daft: you know it doesn't! It's important she's happy and fulfilled. She can't exist to make choices you wish you'd made.
2. You wish she was nearer. Don't we all! You are obviously going to miss her and there's a big bit of you wishes she were nearby. I really get that. But I don't think many people describe Oxbridge as 'cosy'! You may just miss her.
3. Yes, it's fairly cheap - but not the be all and end all.
4. Yep, she got good grades (but so do the vast majority of the large group who are rejected by Oxbridge, so keep in mind that 3 A* grades wouldn't have meant she'd get in. Some people love testing themselves by applying for things, but some people hate it. If she didn't want to try, that is perfectly fair, and it is not right for you to frame her decision as a belief that, with her grades, she really should have tried. Her excellent grades are a thing to be proud of in themselves.
5. No, the essay pressure is not a myth. But, often, people who choose to apply are those who quite enjoy that sort of pressure. If your DD doesn't want that, it might well be she knows she does not enjoy it. That is no negative reflection on her intelligence or stamia.

If I were you, I'd work like the blazes to romanticise wherever she has decided to go, just for yourself. And I would cling on to what she tells me she loves. So maybe she's at York. Wow! Beautiful medieval city and she adores the small-campus vibe, and it is lovely. Or maybe she's gone to Durham - you cannot imagine how impressive that Cathedral City is, and her department is first rate.

I think she might need to feel that from you.

OP, you’re focusing on all the wrong things. The reason to apply to Oxford is because you think the system of teaching would suit you, the curriculum for your subject is one that interests you, you’re very self-directed, can cope with the workload, the short terms, and doing a lot of preparatory work in the vac, and also be prepared to play hard.

Accommodation is cheap in part because terms are short, so you’re paying for fewer nights and you have to move all your stuff out of your room at the end of each term, though most colleges have storerooms, so you’re not lugging it home. There are vast disparities in college wealth, too. I chose a wealthy college because I knew I’d need its hardship fund.

It worked for me, but it wouldn’t be for everyone. I had a ‘college child’ who had a nervous breakdown and took a year out to recover.

Not everyone is rich at all. DD’s best friend and her ex boyfriend both went and neither were rich. Both ex state schools and her boyfriend in particular was from a single parent household. He was supported so much by Oxford, allowed to stay for free in the holidays as he felt he couldn’t go home, given money to buy a suit.

I have a relative at Cambridge and his college give him 5k a year to study there. I think they give it to all state schools pupils studying a certain subject, or maybe your household income needs to be below a certain amount….can’t remember. But again he’s not from a wealthy family at all.

@SarahAndQuack totally agree with all that

But I did say I'm genuinely bigging up where she has chosen as well I'm always saying positive things about it and it's done really well in. Student satisfaction surveys etc .

Assuming that the diversity of the student body is much wider outside of Oxford, then your DC’s future options and understanding of the world may be widened by having a deeper understanding of multiple other ways of living life that many other non Oxford students will have and by living in other university locations in the UK than Oxford.

@CameForAVacationStayedForTheRevolution

They support all sorts of students you don't even need to ask for busrsey if income is low they just give the discounts .not only are the colleges wealrhy they also have wealthy ex students who leave grants in wills.

@DrumSenseintoMe

It can be hard at that age to know what you want and I’m always impressed by young people who truly do. Is tricky though as others can seem to know that they don’t want something but are put off something by certain perceptions or self-doubt. I was quite anti-Oxbridge and my parents were fine with that but eventually applied on the encouragement of another family member and ended up really enjoying it. You know your daughter and I’m sure will have an instinct about it.

It depends on the subject but in my experience essay-based subjects were usually two essays a week (think we were eased in with one a week in the first term, plus a class). This is partly as the courses are more tutorial and independent study-driven than other universities so it sounds like a lot but there are often very few compulsory lectures and more time for private reading. Unlike scientists, there aren’t labs, multiple lectures etc.

Made me smile to read about fifth week burnout. I’d totally forgotten about that but it was the done thing to complain about it (I remember older students telling me about it in my first week), yet the pressures were minimal compared to a many professional jobs, for example. I’m sure we were a bit tired but most people were fine and I think lots joined in with the complaining because it was tradition and sort of enjoyed it. That’s not to underplay the work and I definitely had more than friends at Russell Groups doing similar subjects, but it’s manageable for many, alongside busy social and sporting lives.

I think you will have to trust your daughter on this but I suppose it might be worth looking at some ‘myth-busting’ about Oxbridge if you really want to be sure she is making an informed decision.