DD able to but didn't try for Oxford : slap me

[DrumSenseintoMe]

So, I feel sad and a little bit of failure because DD didn't want to try for Oxford.
Now I can see her there it's charming and beautiful and cosy within each college but also connected to a whole . So you get the best of all worlds.
It's very close to where we live about 30 miles away !
She didn't want to go far . She looked at Durham but feels it's too far.
It's much much cheaper than anywhere else for accommodation by a very long shot , 3 / 4 grand cheaper . On the open days students told us of endless travel grants etc . There are so many opportunities.
Everything is massively subsidized.
I can't help but feel to do so well at school for all these years and work so hard and get predicted three a stars and win subject prizes and not even try, is sad.

What put her off was the talk of 5 week burn out and she said she couldn't cope with an essay a week.
The students we spoke to said it's a thing and a myth and they do stuff on week 5 to cheer people up !

I'm being stupid I know I am. Its just so close ,so cheap so romanticised, so many amazing oppsritnies with the choirs ,drama ,travel grants money chucked at them ,beautlful stunning grounds ,characterful accommodation and interesting international students.

Of course I want her to be happy and enjoy her time but I do think she would have enjoyed it.

Talk sense into me. Btw I've 100 per cent backed her choice talked it up and I genuinely like it and have not let her know my secret disappointment.

I did the Oxford entrance exam many decades ago. I got an interview but wasn't offered a place.

My mother was desperate for me to have gone to Oxford and I think had many of the romantic ideas you have about it.

I got a place at one of the University of London colleges. When my parents drove me there for the first time our route took us by the Oxford ring road.

As we passed it my mother said, "Well I suppose this is the closest I'm going to get to Oxford now." It was massively hurtful.

Let go! Let go of your ambitions for what you think your daughter should want to be and do. Embrace her for who she is, her world and her decisions. Let her grow and develop her own sense of who she is and where and what she wants to do. She needs this to be her own person as an adult.

Look, bluntly, she isn't going out getting roaring drunk or doing drugs or anything that would be truly damaging. She is growing into adulthood and developing a clear responsibility for determining her own future in a mature and healthy way.

I know you haven't said anything to her and have outwardly been positive about her choices. That is good, but she is your daughter, she knows you and will likely sense what is going on unspoken in your mind and emotions.

If you want a good healthy relationship with your daughter into adulthood, please let it go. Try and embrace her ( let's face it, very sensible and mature and positive) decisions about her future. It really isn't worth the damage for something that is actually your dream, not hers.

Op, kindly I hope you’re not making comments to your DD about how much cheaper Oxford would be - my mum would repeatedly mention her colleague’s son, who went to Manchester and ‘only paid £50 a week for his accommodation’, comparing it to my SE uni which was more expensive.

She thought she was being discreet and I never noticed it, but I did. It not only caused me a huge amount of guilt but made me feel like she’d rather I moved further away because it would cost less 😑.

Id be interested where you got your information about how much money there is sloshing around d at Oxford, as it doesn’t match up with what I’ve heard. Did you go to uni?

I think it's fantastic that your DD knows her own mind and won't be corralled into going somewhere she doesn't want to, for all the wrong reasons. I think she sounds amazing!

It's possible she can get excellent grades but still not have the chops for the pressure and competition that Oxford requires.

You don't mention her achieved A levels or her university choice.

@DrumSenseintoMe you dropped a zero on St John's assets!

Honestly, there are lots of pros to an Oxford/Cambridge education, but there cons too and plenty of people would choose another University. Your daughter has to go to the place she feels most excited about.

By the way, the price of accommodation and meals and other grants etc varies significantly from College to College. It's not fair I'm afraid, especially as the information is a bit opaque (partly because Colleges have an implicit agreement not to compete on this) but it is true.

My school pushed me for Oxbridge, a teacher even took a couple of us down there for a visit but I just didn't feel it was me and I ended up going to York
DD also probbaly could have got into Oxbridge but had no interest in it at all and to be honest she didn't need the stress or pressure of it. Her college tried to push it but she was having none of it and is nicely settled at another really good Uni.

No, 24 weeks a year. There are only 3 terms, plus maybe 0th week for collections etc

Absolutely sucks when you're trying to revise for finals and you pay extra and have to schlep all your stuff to a different room so they can have the international school kids in over the vac. Or having tourists gawp and take photos when all you want to do is get back to college to eat before coming back to sit another 3 hour examination in exam schools

@DrumSenseintoMe you are sensibly noting this is your daughter's choice. Oxford is an incredibly intense place to do your degree and it doesn't suit everyone. It's also not seen as the absolute pinnacle for education and employment that it used to be, especially now the old boys network is gradually starting to die a death

I don't understand why you didn't advise her to apply and encourage her to do the test instead of going on the school trip? It's not all on the school to encourage kids to apply. Why didn't you as her parents?

YABVU. It sounds like it's your dream and not hers.

I applied to Oxford 30 years ago and I was rejected. They were absolutely right to reject me. It was completely the wrong place for me.

I'd applied to do chemistry. Before my Oxford interview I had an interview at another top university. I absolutely loved everything about the department and the university. The lecturers I met on the day were inspirational. I had a fantastic interview with a professor who later became my supervisor. He really challenged me to defend my point of view and so on and so forth. They also had a great scheme with industrial scholarships at the time and I ended up getting one of these (you had to apply once you were there and started the course).
I had top grade predictions which I ended up achieving and got an outstanding on the STEP paper for chemistry. (I sound like an arrogant tit here but I'm trying to be factual as you've mentioned how good your daughter is).

I then went to Oxford and to be honest I'd been unsure about it before I went. It was expected of me (from the school's point of view) that I apply and they were sure I would get in and it would look good for the school etc.
From the first evening in the dining hall I absolutely hated it. I don't want to this to sound like a criticism because many people love the college life and it's really suitable for them but for me it was all wrong. At dinner I can remember talking (in front of one of the tutors who was going to be interviewing me) about how much I loved the university I'd been interviewed at before. Daft move....
The interview itself didn't go well because they'd mocked up their own version of the periodic table and you were supposed to apply what you knew about the real periodic table to their version but actually their version really didn't work for various reasons which I pointed out and I got into an argument with the tutors! I can see now that my way of thinking was absolutely not suited to the way of thinking that is needed for the Oxford tutorial system.
I got pooled and interviewed at two other colleges and by that point I knew I didn't want to go and one of them asked me directly if I wanted to go to Oxford and I said no.
So that was the end of that.

My school was furious btw because they phoned Oxford to find out why I hadn't been offered a place (you could do that in those days) and Oxford said they thought I was immature (I was a year ahead at school), argumentative and that they didn't feel that I wanted to go to Oxford. They said if I were to reapply the next year I would have a very good chance of being accepted. The school tried to pressurize me into it but I refused.

Sorry, a long story but not everyone who is academically excellent is suited to Oxford and you, as a parent, need to accept your daughter's decision. I thrived where I went and had amazing opportunities because I was top of the year. I had a lot of things handed to me on a plate and most importantly the teaching style suited me and the general atmosphere of the university was right.

DS was part of an Oxford outreach programme from about year 9. They had people from the uni coming to the school to give talks and trips and overnight stays at the uni up until the beginning of year 13. The main thing that he took from it was that Oxford absolutely wasn’t for him, much to the annoyance of his school.

To further irritate the school he then turned down offers from RG unis including Warwick to firm an offer from Leicester!

The only person I know that went to Oxford was a friend of my brother’s who will tell anyone willing to listen that it was the biggest mistake of his life.

@MindatWork the uni .
DD knows it's cheaper because we've done lots of uni visits totting up acxmd

Honestly I think you are being ridiculous putting so much weight onto a child getting into Oxbridge just baffles me. DD applied and was rejected, has just graduated from another Uni and landed a much coveted graduate media job in her field (politics) it did her zero harm not going.

Exactly

the fetishisation of Oxbridge on MN is very strange

I would agree with pretty much every word of this. I went to Cambridge and watched my school friends in envy having what looked like a much better time in other places. The intensity of the terms, the teaching approach, the sheer loneliness in the first year of sitting alone producing essay after essay with no one to discuss it with, and the fact that I felt poorer than everyone around me all the time. My holidays were mostly spent temping or working kitchen jobs to keep up with the cost of living - there's no cheap student union bar in Cambridge - and everyone around me seemed to be off backpacking round the world. The vile behaviour of some of the public school boys around me really upset me and the absolute veneration of rowing and those who rowed. I could go on. I didn't make the most of many of the opportunities on paper because socially and academically I was desperately trying to keep my head above water.

I got a degree and there will surely have been times since I left that the Cambridge name has done me a favour, but I would redo it all in a heartbeat and go somewhere else if I could.

I know the social mix has come a long way since I was there in the 90s, but it's still very much a place you have to really want to be at I think.

I was pushed to apply back in the 90s - but my school made the mistake of taking us 'selected ones' on a trip there. I hated it - full of far too many of the braying rugger bugger types I was desperate to get away from at my private school. Also - the courses were all very old fashioned without any options for years abroad etc. I went to a northern city Uni and loved it. Interestingly, I went back to Oxford recently with my family. We booked three nights and only stayed 2 as we were all bored to tears.

A friend did go to Oxford- she said the workload was huge and she barely went outside of her college during her 3 years there. Meanwhile I was watching bands, going to raves, spending a year abroad and generally having the time of my life. I know which experience I'd rather have and I suspect your girl does, too!

Your DD is doing absolutely the right thing and good on her for sticking to what she knows is right for her.

I went to Oxford - not an unhappy experience (made some good friends) but I've often felt I might have done better somewhere where I wasn't so intimidated.

The idea that it's a "golden ticket" is much exaggerated - many of the students are already quite privileged when they arrive and it's very hard to separate the influence of Oxford from everything else. Most of the people I knew who ended up extremely successful you could have guessed that in the first week.

DD is at Aberystwyth - nowhere in league tables but she showed me her Instagram from the last year and she looked to be having so much fun! And seems to be enjoying the work too.

Anyone will do best at the place that works for them.

What put her off was the talk of 5 week burn out

Used to be called "Fifth week Blues".
Dsis' university had "Sixth week Blues".

We reckoned we had it better because in the 5th week we only had 3 weeks left to go, so by 6th week we felt almost end of term-y.
Whereas 6th week blues had 4 weeks and dsis said 7th week still felt blues.

Dd was pushed for Oxford and got the grades but decided against it. She was absolutely fine with her choice of Sheffield and I think much happier than she may have been as she's state school bright and was worried about finding her people. She thrived.

@DrumSenseintoMe School probably knew she wasn’t interested. Most schools do have a few they direct towards Oxbridge and support them. It’s common in many state schools and absolutely is not just an independent school thing. The difference might be confidence and fear of failure.

What is “face” killing her love of English? What are her A levels and subject possibilities for university?

MSE is correct about student loans. They are not a debt you must pay off. Getting the best degree you can, and the best job you can, means you pay off quickly and, in effect pay less. Poor students get way more financial help than others whose parents are required to pay and don’t. Not many at Oxbridge are on their uppers though. It’s a pretty small minority so they can afford to be generous. Agree it’s not suitable for everyone but often you are amongst people with ambition and the desire to do well.

Also I’m not sure anyone has mentioned the intensity. I don’t just mean work, the college system means each college acts like a small village with everyone knowing what everyone else has got up to. It is almost certain that someone will know who you had a ons with.
Decades later at a reunion we could discuss someone purely on the grounds of how she dressed. It’s not all bitchy but it is intense and might not suit a private person.

My DD thought about Oxbridge and we went to open days. In the end she decided the pressure wasn’t for her and she didn’t apply.

i was a little gutted (mainly because halls were a lot cheaper than her other choices!) but it was the right decision for her. She actually struggled with a huge amount of anxiety around her a levels and I think the pressure would have been detrimental to her MH.

she has friends going and I did ask her if she regretted her choice now she saw them
heading off but she is quite happy with the choice she has made.

@Mycatissohandsome

Money ? Cheaper ? Accmd pretty much guaranteed for 3 even 4 years within the same college ? Instead of having eye watering accmd elsewhere (where she wants to go ) and then the struggle of private renting and landlords in oversubscribed environment ? More travel opportunities etc and life long cachet of being at the so called best ?

@whatohwhattodo the cheaper aspect really shocked me I assumed it would be more expensive cheaper and no hassle of having to find private digs after the first year.

@MollyButton thanks for that it can work both ways can't it but I can see how a more bitchy set up could be an issue and then your stuck for three years !