DD able to but didn't try for Oxford : slap me

[DrumSenseintoMe]

So, I feel sad and a little bit of failure because DD didn't want to try for Oxford.
Now I can see her there it's charming and beautiful and cosy within each college but also connected to a whole . So you get the best of all worlds.
It's very close to where we live about 30 miles away !
She didn't want to go far . She looked at Durham but feels it's too far.
It's much much cheaper than anywhere else for accommodation by a very long shot , 3 / 4 grand cheaper . On the open days students told us of endless travel grants etc . There are so many opportunities.
Everything is massively subsidized.
I can't help but feel to do so well at school for all these years and work so hard and get predicted three a stars and win subject prizes and not even try, is sad.

What put her off was the talk of 5 week burn out and she said she couldn't cope with an essay a week.
The students we spoke to said it's a thing and a myth and they do stuff on week 5 to cheer people up !

I'm being stupid I know I am. Its just so close ,so cheap so romanticised, so many amazing oppsritnies with the choirs ,drama ,travel grants money chucked at them ,beautlful stunning grounds ,characterful accommodation and interesting international students.

Of course I want her to be happy and enjoy her time but I do think she would have enjoyed it.

Talk sense into me. Btw I've 100 per cent backed her choice talked it up and I genuinely like it and have not let her know my secret disappointment.

The most disconcerting part is how much power (some) individuals have in this system and how they get away with abusing this power due to their reputation and the culture of covering up.

edited for clarity

People rarely thrive in an environment they don’t want to be in

What do you mean?

Oxford takes mature students @DrumSenseintoMe …. If you like the sound of it so much, there’s nothing to stop you doing intensive A level courses, and when you get four A stars, apply there yourself!

You really do have a rose tinted view of Oxford life. It suits some students, but definitely not others, and your DD could see it wasn’t right for her. As did my DC who could have applied, got amazing A levels, went somewhere else that they fell in love with at the open day, and was very happy.

I know another young person who was strongly persuaded to go to Oxbridge by their parents, and was unhappy to the point of depression. I’d never have forgiven myself if I’d done that to my DC for the sake of basking in reflected glory.

LiliLena I quite see that. But it's not pointless to counter the example of one young person who was unhappy with several who were not.

Recent (vicarious) experience suggests that more are happy than not and more manage than struggle. I think it's fair to say that few would claim that they'd sailed through with no choppy waters but then how many young people find their uni years a complete breeze? Struggling at the outset is probably very common but isn't that widely experienced elsewhere too?

That said, it's not good to push a DC in a direction they instinctively don't want to go in. That's bound to increase the chances of real unhappiness.

I posted my experience earlier in the thread and have continued to follow with interest, it has actually been really helpful to me to know that I am not alone or necessarily in a very small minority in not having had an absolute ball at Oxford. I have always felt a bit guilty at not having found it a great experience and not appreciating it, and wondered what was wrong with me. Obviously many people do love Oxbridge so it is very much an individual thing. Unfortunately Netflix is determined that I must want to watch “My Oxford Year”, I would rather poke my eyes out than suffer that utter nonsense!!

OP - meant to add - and my Dc ended up doing the year in industry in the Oxbridge town that they turned down applying for - in a company working in affiliation with the University. And that year confirmed that it was not a place they enjoyed living, and they have now permanently relocated to the city of their RG Uni and are loving it.

We have to trust them! They fly when they are in their element.

Sure, but that’s not an argument for not going to university there. Living and working in Oxford (as the city where I’ve been a student and also lived briefly while not a student) is absolutely nothing like studying at the university. For a start your social life, participation in clubs etc is going to be completely different. Even your geography of the city is going to be completely different. Oxford has quite a strong Town vs Gown division.

It is absolute cringe. The DD who went to the college it was filmed it thought so too, but apparently her peers from the college are divided in opinion about it - goodness knows how.

Yes that is fair. And actually good to hear. Thank you.

They keep going on and on about MH because parents sue them for damages if they don’t look after dc. It’s always the fault of the university if something goes wrong and Oxbridge has quite a few who might need extra services. So they tell everyone about pastoral care. They won’t say don’t apply if you cannot hack it.

TizerorFizz you mostly post good sense but that comment about why Oxford and Cambridge put a focus on pastoral support is just silly. It goes way beyond corporate considerations. Unfortunately more students than the average do tend to arrive at the two universities with perfectionist, anxious or other traits which will predispose them to mental health issues, especially when put under pressure which is an inevitable part of the way things work at both. Many tutors will share the same traits, many have been there done that, many are parents or just decent people who care about these students on a personal level and none wants to see them struggle, be unhappy, drop out or at the almost unthinkable end, take their own life. It's a proportionate focus, based on the realities of the constituency and thank goodness for it. What's tragic is that there will always be some who fall through the net.

Even Cambridge, which is much smaller, is very different to live in when neither student nor academic. Different pubs, social spaces and residential areas. I worked there for a year in a ‘normal’ job and didn’t set foot in a university building all year.

There's been one high-profile UK case of parents suing a university after a student suicide. Natasha Abrahart’s parents were partly successful by arguing that the U of Bristol hadn’t made sufficient adaptation in assessment types for her disability (chronic anxiety), and the judge agreed, but they failed to win the other part of their case — that the university had failed in its duty of care to her.

The fact is that it is very hard to get unhappy students to engage with the (vast amounts of) help available at virtually all universities. We all train. I can (and I have done) walk a student over from my office to an emergency session with a counsellor or a GP in the student health centre, and liaise with their permission with Disability Services, but that’s only because they came in for a meeting or showed up to classes in the first place. I can phone them and email them over and over, and leave friendly, reassuring messages, but if they don’t reply, there are not many other options.

That’s not an Oxbridge specific problem.

@DrumSenseintoMe @SarahAndQuack @badkitty OP, I get what you're saying. Lots on here will say that Oxbridge is not for everyone but I agree, shame to completely write it off for someone as talented.

What is surprisingly interesting is that there seem to be so many kids that do get in who have had family members who have been. So it can't have been all that bad!! Familiarity obviously helps.

If you're DC expressed an interest in going to Oxbridge, given your experience, would you be tempted to dissuade them?

But the DD doesn't want to go so that's the end of that.

People on here have been sharing stories, myself included, many of which were saying they didn't like it or didn't want to go but I think the vast majority of people have said that it would be a great experience for a lot of people who like the style of the teaching etc. I really don't think that lots of people have been saying it's "all bad" as your second paragraph implies.

I don't think it is a shame to write it off because she's talented when she's said she doesn't want to go and has chosen somewhere else she really likes.

I had an interview at Oxford, ended up hanging out with the rowers and loved the architecture but hated the snobbery/stuck up air. I wouldn’t have been happy there. My brother went to Cambridge and enjoyed it mostly but he went for my parents, not for himself.

Not an argument for not going to the University, no.

But for my Dc a year in the town (Cambridge) was further confirmation of their choice not to have studied there.
My Dc was fully aware that the educational opportunity on offer was second to none. But they also knew that the NatSci course approach did not suit their vocational ‘let’s get on with it’ practicality, and they hated the weighted blanket of tradition that seemed to permeate everything.

From a very multi cultural S London school the fact that the tour guides could extol the importance of matriculation ceremonies etc in Kings College Chapel with complete obliviousness to the fact that half the group were probably of non-Christian religion had my teen sucking their teeth.

There are many reasons why students may not choose Oxbridge.

My yp had the opportunity to apply to Oxbridge and was heavily pushed by the college. However after looking into it, the courses available, and visiting both universities they decided they did not want to apply - the course wasn't what they wanted They're now at another uni (their first choice) and they are loving it. They know where they want to be and what is going to be their place. That's more important than this romanticised idea about a university experience.

@Sevillian yes and on our tours many tour guides did mention numerous pastoral health supports and also other meet ups and and nice stuff they do to support each other

It wasn't even mentioned at other uni tours eg UCL, kings ,bath , Southampton.

@diddlysquatagain yea this did occur to me
Had DH and I been or one of us I don't think it would have been so off putting for her.

I'd suggest not conflating Oxford and Cambridge. Cambridge small town, Oxford big industrial. Oxford do exams in gowns and bow ties and has posh boys' club; Cambridge simply doesn't. If a DC is doubtful about Oxford, think Cambridge.They are different!! Very very different 'feel" to them for students. Short terms are great btw if finances are a stretch because students have more weeks in which to work. I was miserable at Cambridge most of the time but it wasn't Cambridge, it was me; I'd have been deeply unhappy anywhere at that age. An essay a week too much?? Seriously 😅OP btw: do consider perhaps DC wants to be more than 30 miles from home?

Cambridge has the Pitt Club for posh boys. And godawful drinking societies of course although you can join those whatever school you went to.

I was actively groomed to go to Oxbridge from the age of about 8 (my teacher went and was obsessed with it). I didn't apply in the end. In my case I desperately wanted to but my parents had let me down financially in various big ways by then; the only way I could have survived financially would have been to work part-time and I had been told that Oxbridge colleges didn't allow that (also that jobs in Oxford and Cambridge were hard to come by). I went to a Russell Group uni close to home which I absolutely loved, and I have ended up in a very traditionally Oxbridge profession. I really wouldn't lose any sleep over this, OP, as long as she genuinely doesn't want to apply and the reason isn't something practical that you could do something about.