Is there a problem with Islam?

[LeafBud7]

My answer to this has always been, no, even if there are problematic elements within Islam especially for women, you can say the same about any culture or ideology, or religion.
I have been reading and thinking more about this recently, and i'm going round in circles. My brother in law is Muslim, and I am going to ask him what he thinks when I next get the chance for a proper chat, also a female colleague who I think would be open to talking about this..
In the meantime, what do you think? Is it as I have always thought, above, or is there something potentially within the religion what makes it more problematic, or is it not the religion itself, but more how things evolve in some communities? Is it all just a imaginary "problem" used by racists to whip up a storm?
One thing is for sure, it seems one is not really allowed to ask these questions in some circles, without being accused of being racist, which I find really unhelpful.

Similarly you’d never think Christianity also believed in child marriage (for women) because the Vatican and CoE have ensured Bible translations don’t include it.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that children (adolescents) used to be married off. IIRC the 'age of reason' was held to be 12 for girls and 14 for boys, both of which we'd consider to be child marriage today, although more egregious for the girls. Even to this there were exceptions: Richard of Shrewsbury (the younger of the 'Princes in the Tower') was married at 5 years old. Any cursory knowledge of medieval-early modern history will show you plenty of children from aristocratic families being married off young, although more often 'young' means about 15/16 rather than the typical minimum.

I don't think this is rare knowledge at all. It's just that nowadays we associate this more with a practice of medieval/early modern times rather than a practice of Christianity, whereas in modern times we associate it with Islam.

Almost certainly is.

True, and maybe that is an important point, that Islam is the justification rather than a cause? But does islam somehow make it easy for that justification to take place, easier than say modern day christianity or hinduism? I am going to look up some more views and videos about that question, but i suspect i will just find convincing opinions on both sides. And tbh, im not about to read the Quran and study it. I dont even find time to read the newspaper half the time.

They would be married off, but they wouldn’t be expected to consummate the marriage as children in medieval Europe.

The fact that ‘the Prophet’ had a child bride himself and was essentially a powerful warlord who promised heavenly spoils of war to his soldiers, means the misogyny is sort of baked in.

There is a problem with people (mainly men) using Islam to suppress women’s rights and autonomy. I live in an area with a high Muslim population and it is so depressing seeing a woman in the Burqa while her husband is striding off in shorts and a t-shirt. Visually she no longer looks like a person anymore, just a black shroud.

Good point. Its not a great start is it.

Yes, this summer I was at a holiday village where the daughters were wearing full burkinis and head coverings (not the face covered), while their brothers were in trunks, all siblings were all going down water slides and on the rapids and I think the girls were at serious risk of injury and drowning, and drew embarrassing attention with that attire. It was absurdly sexist.

Sisters Uncut are an organisation full of transactivists.

Where do you get you ideas from ive studied all religions and I'm interested in where this so called fact about the prophet came from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha historical accounts

You've studied Islam yet never come across Muhammad's third wife, Aisha bint Abi Bakr. Nor* observed *the preponderance of child marriage in Islamic countries - that's very interesting.

Then how come they were in trunks?

Then why don’t they follow it but the daughters and wives are expected to? Perhaps expected is too generous…required to?

IMO there absolutely is a problem with Islam as it is practiced today in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. In places where women are expected to cover up with Chador, Burqa, Niquab even Hijab. Where FGM, honour killings, stoning women for adultery (even as rape victims) occur.

I'm currently in the southern end of Morocco. In the small town I'm in I see men out and about in shorts and t-shirts, yet women are rarer in public and they're in Burqua's or Hijab with the whole body covered, only face and hands showing. I saw a woman on a private rooftop still in a Burqa. These women are probably suffering from a vitamin D deficiency at the very least.

There is no way I would want to live here as a woman.

I do not want to live in a country with Sharia law. I think western feminists need to speak up more loudly to support women in places like Iran where they continue their #WomanLifeFreedom movement.

In Britain and Europe where Muslim communities are already using Sharia law or calling for it IMO this should be very strongly pushed back against by governments, police and judiciary. There is no place for a parallel legal system that disadvantages women so much. That is a direct contradiction to our democracy and very dangerous to the rights our grandmothers and great grandmothers called for.

Unfortunately I think too many men in Britain and Europe would let women's rights go quite happily. It's up to us to fight for our rights for freedom.

I've seen the argument in the atheist community that when Christians state that negative practices practiced by some Christians is "not real Christianity" that this is bs. I agree that we can't separate out the practice of the religion from the religion and say "but that's not really the religion". If that's how it's put into practice, then that IS the religion.

I see no reason to make an exception for Islam.

But does islam somehow make it easy for that justification to take place, easier than say modern day christianity or hinduism?

I would say yes and no. For example, many Christians also practice FGM, which like Islam has no basis in the bible yet it remains a cultural practice. There are also non Islamic countries which practice child marriage such as India.

However there are versus in the Qur'an on punishing your wife and the modesty of women. But the bible talks about women obeying their husbands etc so again it's the patriarchal nature of religion, combined with lack of progression interpreted by misogynists.

I think there is a fundamental problem with most religions. Even if they pay lip service to women’s power, they are still used as a tool to control and subjugate women.

Different standards of dress, different rules for accessing religious study, different rules for participation as religious authority, are all ways of keeping women separate and othered. There may be scripture used to justify these practices, but that doesn’t absolve the religion of engaging in blatant sexism.

the religious leaders have the ability to realize that practices and scriptures were written down and translated by fallible men who were influenced by the culture and misogyny of their time. Those leaders could choose to modernize. That they don’t, makes clear the discrimination is something they want to perpetuate.

There is no problem with 'Islam'. Islam is not a singular thing, it is multiple strands of cultural, religious, and political custom and thought lumped together under one word. So, which Islam are you specifically referring to?

Oh here we go. (Eye roll)

How is it the religion that's the problem.
The problem lies with the countries that all it.
No religion doesn't make people bad its people that are bad to their very core and evil lives in them.
So how many religions have you studied or does wiki make you an expert ffs

I'm guessing that you haven't studied Islam or you would have heard of Muhammad's third wife. She's very well known amongst those who have a fleeting knowledge of Islam.

I'm not going to explain why people emulating child marriage is a problem. They're trying to bring down the age of marriage in Iraq for girls to 9, which to me, is barbaric.

I agree and don’t think it’s racist to say what you’ve said.

I have listened to ex Muslims like Yasmine Mohammed, Nuriyah Khan and a man with the YouTube moniker of Apostate Prophet. I would say as a general rule, if you can leave any group, organisation or religion without threats, then it may have problems but still be fine on the whole. The experiences of Yasmine et al prove that’s not the case with Islam.

Yes there are problems with the religious teaching of Islam and problems with the cultural practices in some areas of the UK. These problems mainly affect poor Muslim women but most feminists don’t care as Islam is often represented in the media by middle class educated Muslims who probably have a more liberal faith.

Currently domestic violence against Pakistani UK Muslim women is increasing but no one likes to talk about it.