Is there a problem with Islam?

[LeafBud7]

My answer to this has always been, no, even if there are problematic elements within Islam especially for women, you can say the same about any culture or ideology, or religion.
I have been reading and thinking more about this recently, and i'm going round in circles. My brother in law is Muslim, and I am going to ask him what he thinks when I next get the chance for a proper chat, also a female colleague who I think would be open to talking about this..
In the meantime, what do you think? Is it as I have always thought, above, or is there something potentially within the religion what makes it more problematic, or is it not the religion itself, but more how things evolve in some communities? Is it all just a imaginary "problem" used by racists to whip up a storm?
One thing is for sure, it seems one is not really allowed to ask these questions in some circles, without being accused of being racist, which I find really unhelpful.

@BodyKeepingScore

Did you ChatGPT this?

Did you not like what @koolkatxx wrote because it went against what you thought Islam teaches? Or is it because you were wrong about what you thought?

How do you feel about the oppression of women in Afghanistan?

There are currently millions of people experiencing extreme suffering for the sake of Judaism,
Er no. Millions of people are suffering for the sake of land disputes ( and terrorist tit for tat ) The Israelis are not bombing Palestinians to enforce Judaism .

Did I pass any remark on the content or information contained in the post itself? There’s literally no need to regurgitate AI on a chat forum. If someone can’t form or articulate a comment for themselves they should refrain from commenting.
As it stands, you have absolutely no insight into what I believe about Islam or indeed any other faith…because no such insight could be gleaned from a brief comment remarking on copy pasting an AI post

Ok so what do you think about it then @BodyKeepingScore ?

I generally don’t think about it. Any more than I think of people practicing Catholicism or Judaism. I simply acknowledge that there are people in this world who believe and practise things that I don’t and just get on with my life.

Is that why no Muslim leaders have come out to condemn this? They dismiss it as CULTURE and not RELIGION? Therefore nothing to do with them even though they claim to be Muslim.

I think that the Catholic church was so powerful at one point, that its priests were allowed to get away with anything as the clergy were seen as untouchable.

I think it's a disgrace and something to be ashamed of and any member of a religious order who went along with it, should be imprisoned. It wasn't just the sexual abuse of children but all the other inhumane behaviour carried out by so called religious people.

I am firmly against faith schools and the Church having anything to do with the State.

But it’s religion as well not just culture. There are more liberal interpretations of all religions but the oppressive harmful interpretations will also exist because of what is in the text.

In Islamic teaching it is ok to beat your wife. Obviously there are good Muslim men who won’t do this but there are bad Muslim men who will use the teaching to justify their actions. Same with women’s voices being heard publicly. Men in Afghanistan are using this teaching to silence women.

There is nothing in the Quran that suggests that a husband is allowed to beat his wife. She is to be honored and treated kindly, even when one no longer feels love in one's heart towards her.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) enjoined kind treatment and honouring of one’s wife, and he described the best of people as those who are best to their wives. He said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Majah, 1977; classed as sahih by al-Albani in Sahih al-Tirmidhi)

There are Hadith’s that tell men how to beat their wives. Because this teaching exists people will use it to justify what they do. Religious teaching plays a part.

The Qur'an also gives instructions on how to punish your wife.

Well can you quote where you have found these please?

In the Quran instructions on disciplining wives Surah 4, verse 34,

In the Hadith Book 77, Hadith 42 beating a woman so her bruises are green like her clothes.

I lived in a muslim majority country for a decade and I'm a muslim but I don't practice anymore. Yes there is a huge problem with Islam. Yes women are repressed and yes it is misogynistic to the core.

People will come along and say Islam isn't the problem. Well when you see women who can't read, women who can't go out without there husbands permission, not allowed to dress how they want, not allowed financial independence. It's heartbreaking and it all comes down to practicing by "the book".

You'll have to be more specific as there are a few hadiths ie Sahih Bukhari, Tirimidhi etc. please quote which you are referring to

Verse 4:34.

In hadiths, Muhammad reiterated this instruction at his farewell sermon and is recorded variously as forbidding, limiting and condoning such actions.

Some of his prominent companions are also recorded as slapping or beating wives or female slaves and instructing others to do so.

As a core principle of Islamic law, the condoning of wife-beating lives on in the fataawa of modern Islamic scholars, and Islamic Law does not recognise the beating of wives by their husbands as a crime unless grievous bodily injury results to the wife.

Women who bang on about how peaceful Islamism is are 100% right. It is peaceful. Because in Afghanistan women are not allowed to speak.

So bang on the money there ladies.

There is nothing in the Quran that suggests that a husband is allowed to beat his wife

This is completely untrue. I have read the Qu'ran from cover to cover and in three different translations ( one by an academic and two by believers) and they ALL have the clear passage where men are told they can beat disobedient wives. Its put in the context of an escalation discipline by a husband, culminating in the husband beating the wife if she does not become obedient after previous attempts at discipline. I have also read and heard accounts from several believing muslim women talking about this passage. Its definitely in the Qu'ran.

Men are oppressing women not religion

Well this is a false dichotomy. Men created the religions. The text, the rituals, the laws, the founding commentaries and so on. All written by men.

As is the ' its culture not religion' argument. Religion is always mediated through current thinking and practice on what the texts mean ( for book based religions anyway). Whether its fundamentalist interpretations of religions or progressive, they are all doing what they think their religion demands.

Are you saying none of this is in any Islam teachings? Praise be.

So where do these men get these ideas from?

Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women1 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,2 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.3 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, and beat them.4 Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great

This is the passage from the Qu'ran 4 :34 .

The Quran was transmitted to Muhammad though…who was a mortal man, and passed down through ,and written down by, mortal men throughout the ages…although there were Islamic women scholars through time ,we can’t get away from the fact that the word of God/Allah/ Jehovah ,whichever religion you follow, has mainly been documented by men as well as misinterpreted by men. Like the Bible, which was also transmitted by oral retelling and in its written form has had many bits added or taken away throughout its history, religious texts will never stand up to modern scrutiny. Anyone who is Church of England knows that their version of religion has its roots in King Henry Vlll wishing to divorce his catholic wife and remarry as well as the monarchy wanting the power and wealth accumulated by the Catholic Church…..the political , cultural and societal intertwining of religions over history means that it is impossible for many people to look at religion objectively.

The Quran was transmitted to Muhammad though…who was a mortal man, and passed down through ,and written down by, mortal men throughout the ages…

Well yes. All the main religions favour and advantage men over women and assume men are in control of women. Because they were written by men who simply could not conceive, at that time in that society, of equality for women.

If Judaism, Christianity or Islam had as one of their core commandments that women have absolute bodily autonomy I would perhaps think that maybe that was from God. But they don't. They all describe situations in which men have access to women's bodies whether women want that or not. The writers have no conception at all of women having a right to control over their own bodies.

To fully understand the Quran and the verses that were revealed you must study the seerah of the Prophet (SAW) because context is key. Reading a passage and not understanding why it was revealed will only lead to misinterpretations of what was said.