Is there a problem with Islam?

[LeafBud7]

My answer to this has always been, no, even if there are problematic elements within Islam especially for women, you can say the same about any culture or ideology, or religion.
I have been reading and thinking more about this recently, and i'm going round in circles. My brother in law is Muslim, and I am going to ask him what he thinks when I next get the chance for a proper chat, also a female colleague who I think would be open to talking about this..
In the meantime, what do you think? Is it as I have always thought, above, or is there something potentially within the religion what makes it more problematic, or is it not the religion itself, but more how things evolve in some communities? Is it all just a imaginary "problem" used by racists to whip up a storm?
One thing is for sure, it seems one is not really allowed to ask these questions in some circles, without being accused of being racist, which I find really unhelpful.

enjoying hating on Muslims, including Muslim women.

Which posts have done that? Because they should be removed if that’s the case. Otherwise there seems to be some conflation between criticising misogynistic aspects of a religion, and enjoying hating on people.

Powerful and frightening speech from* * Horia Mosadiq Afghan political analyst and journalist.
"The Taliban has effectively imprisoned women in the name of Islam, while Islamic countries remain blissfully indifferent. If this extremism continues unchecked, it could very well spread to other Islamic nations."

https://x.com/HabibKhanT/status/1834333320638837119

They have been deleted. The point is that they have been made in the first place.

It's fine to criticise aspects of a religion but this thread seems to be criticising Islam as a whole. Does that not make anyone else feel uncomfortable?

Why shouldn't people criticise a religion?

They can, I personally do it all the time. I criticise specific things though, not the religion as a whole.

It's fine to criticise religion as a whole. The UK is full of atheists and agnostics and humanists who simply don't like religion. It's perfectly acceptable to not like any religion or all religion. I don't like Christianity - there, I've dissed a religion as a whole.

That's ok, you do you.

I just prefer to not judge millions of people with one sweeping statement made without any kind of intelligent reasoning to back it up.

People criticise religions as a whole all the time, talking about sky fairies and such.
I’m agnostic myself, but I’ve seen lots of posts on this forum that could be upsetting for religious people.
Personally, I don’t agree with making fun of people because of their beliefs, but questioning and criticising religion (whether just certain aspects of it or as a whole) should be allowed.

But it’s not about judging millions of people, it’s about judging an ideology.

I wasn't judging anyone. I was simply saying that I don't like religion. But I will do me, I was brought up with free speech and I'll exercise it.

So make intelligent arguments as to why you dislike the ideology. Sweeping statements aren't going to get you anywhere.

Anyway, I'm done with all this for tonight. It's not been a particularly productive conversation so feels a bit pointless!

Have a good night

The problem ( for me) in saying it’s cultural rather than religious, is that the inferior status of women is explicitly outlined in the Coran, and that to most Muslims the coran is non negotiable and serves as a manual for living. Sure, Mizrahi Jews adopted a lot of Arab customs, but to my mind that doesn’t prove that poor treatment of women in Muslim countries isn’t undepined by religion.

Have you read the thread? Direct passages have been quoted.

*Quran

The problem is that quoting something to other people who don't know the context etc is really quite pointless. Have the discussion with someone with actual knowledge of the religion instead, see if they can explain their point of view to you.

That's if you're actually wanting to understand the passages.

Well, why won’t anyone explain the context of those passages on here then?
To simply say people won’t be interested in understanding them anyway seems like a bit of a cop out.
You said people should make intelligent arguments, but when they do, they’re either told that they’re talking about culture and not religion, or that they don’t understand the context.

Who exactly would you like to explain the context? The people whose backs are up because their religion is being ridiculed and torn to shreds on here? I'm sure you can understand why people might not be up for that kind of a challenge. An anonymous forum is not the place for this as the level of constant disrespect will mean no one who can potentially explain the context will want to get involved.

I'm Jewish. I have no skin in this game (apart from that those who argue against Islam will be arguing against Judaism next), I just think it's depressing how many people on this thread have been saying things like they dislike Islam because it oppresses women but then ignores everything these apparently oppressed women on MN are telling them. It's been an utterly pointless discussion.

This post @Hyperion100 stood out for me in terms of clarity of words

@WantingToBeHelpful

If those are the only two options I'd choose the UK as it's more likely to be a good cultural fit for me

A better cultural fit than the other option then? Can you give an example of the type of culture there that would not be a good fit for you in an Islamic country. I know you find the thread problematic but there seems to be disconnect between your choice and your other posts

@WantingToBeHelpful as I am Christian, if someone came at me saying the bible is misogynistic , i would utterly agree,some lovely samples here "1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."
"Leviticus 15:20 : "And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean."
"16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts."
do you think these verses are "open to interpretation" and would need to be explained to a Muslim or Hindu person or would their view on these verses be understandable?......just because aspects of the Bible are incompatible with womens rights and the modern world, it does not mean Christianity has no worth to the people who practise it, more that we understand the Bible was written by men many hundreds of years ago at a different time of society. Equally , I recognise,value and understand the role that Islam plays in many peoples lives but no religion is above being challenged. I respect those Muslim women who understand this about their religious texts as they are the ones who will create progess . Lets instead focus on the many aspects of each religion that benefit everyones lives....there are Muslim people in my city involved in soup runs, with the homeless, with food banks,with refugee charities, with schools......that to me is being a good Muslim not imprisoning women behind "modesty" that is instead control.

Again, the “apparently oppressed” women on here mainly keep saying that any misogyny in Muslim majority countries is due to culture, not religion, and when asked about specific passages in the Quran they’re saying those are taken out of context without explaining what the context is.
It’s basically like saying: “There’s no problem here, you’ll have to take our word for it”, and if people do see a problem they’re just racist.
Telling people that because they’re questioning Islam they’re “tearing it to shreds” and hence don’t deserve any explanations or responses is just a debate terminating tactic.
Why is it so difficult to explain the context on an anonymous forum?

My main issue with this thread is the amount of people who don't seem to see the good in Islam and think Islam as a whole is the problem. I agree that there are problematic parts to it, parts that I vehemently disagree with. So criticise those specific parts, not the whole religion. I am not saying don't challenge Islam - I'm suggesting to do it in a respectful, constructive, productive and reasoned way.

I agree with this. You rarely hear about the emphasis on charity, community and family for example and all the positives that come from that. It becomes a very skewed perspective.

I'm European - it's probably safe to assume I'd have more culturally in common with another European country than one on another continent, no? I've been to Israel many times and it's not a good fit for me culturally either.

Luckily nobody appointed you as the thread police. It's not for you to tell other people what they can discuss and how to discuss it.

We're in the Feminism forum discussing misogyny in Islam. It's relevant because of the way women in Islamic countries are being treated. They're being treated that way because of the religion.

Apologists are saying that there isn't a problem when there clearly is. In Iran and Afghanistan for example, women are being treated as less than human because of their religion.

There has been no condemnation of this misogyny by any Islamic governments and no Muslims on this board have criticised it. There has been complete indifference to the plight of these women.

We need to bring sunlight to this and stop hiding behind 'Islamophobia' in order to shut down discussion. Islam has a woman problem, let's not pretend otherwise.

It's difficult to explain the context on an anonymous forum because there are a lot of disingenuous questions and posters. There's no respectful discourse, it's just constant attempts at "gotchas".

It's also hard to explain faith to people who don't believe. And I say that as someone Jewish but not religious who has never understood how my friends and family can just accept the Torah because G-d says so. I don't get it. But I recognise that I don't need to get it, it's got nothing to do with me. They can believe what they want as long as they don't force it on me, which they don't.

If you desperately want to know the context to certain passages in the Qur'an I'm sure you could just Google it and then look at explanations you agree with as well as ones you don't to get a fuller picture.