This is the problem with men

[CassieMaddox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33nv8x64mlo

I strongly suggest only reading the first para.

This is a mild mannered researcher, highly educated, appeared to be an animal lover. Featured on programmes with David Attenborough.

In his free time liked to torture animals for sexual kicks.

He says: "Adding that his family was not aware or involved in any way, he wrote: "I will seek long term treatment and... I will find a path towards redemption."

Still blaming others, not taking responsibility for his choice.

This case to me shows how impossible it is to "pick the right man", and what annoying thing that is to say to abused women. And also that these men systematically blame their abnormal sex drive on an "illness" or addiction, rather than facing up to the fact they can control their penises.

I don't know what the answer is. I wish he was never getting out of jail.

I think it’s pretty clear.

“Men commit rape”, “men are violent to women”, “men mistreat women” are all statements I agree with.

”Men maim, torture and murder pets and have obscene bestiality fetishes” is not something I agree with.

This type of crime is so vanishingly rare you cannot use it to make intelligent, general statements about the behaviour of men as a class.

The statement "This is the problem with men" in relation to a case that would horrify and disgust over 99% of men, makes it look like feminists are using any news against men even if it is irrelevant to the behaviour of practically all men.

Every day there is an avalanche of caes of VAWG. You don't need to mention this case. I read today that in Iraq they are legalising marriage to girls as young as 9. I don't see a thread about that.

”Men maim, torture and murder pets and have obscene bestiality fetishes” is not something I agree with.

How about 'men's sexual urges and potential for violence often manifest in actions which can span a range of types of deviance and criminality from the commonplace to the rare.'

Would that satisfy you?

I read today that in Iraq they are legalising marriage to girls as young as 9. I don't see a thread about that.

Start one then FFS instead of coming into this thread and telling those of us who are choosing to discuss this issue, that we shouldn't be. If you did start one, I am sure there would be a lively and interesting discussion.

I'm not telling you what to discuss. Ì'm disagreeing with the some of you.

Saying that I am telling you whst to discuss makes it look like you have a persecution complex.

Which of my comments gave you the impression I was telling you what you can and can't discuss?

You said 'you don't need to mention this case', and then suggested something else you think we should be taking about instead.

Seems like I misunderstood you though. I'm not sure if the fault lies with me reading your post wrong, or you not expressing yourself very well.

Can we get on now with discussing this man's perversions and whether they're connected to a general male propensity towards violence?

There’s no need to satisfy me.

I think these crimes stand on their own and are largely incomparable. I think sexual urges are perfectly normal and it’s not proportionate or lucid to associate any man (or woman) exhibiting any sort of sexuality with this man. I’m allowed to think this and share my thoughts.

I’m also not really sure where the line is drawn between a deviant and a criminal.

Can we get on now with discussing this man's perversions and whether they're connected to a general male propensity towards violence?

Yes we can.

They're not.

Why do you believe that?

It's widely known that, sadly, some small boys start dissecting insects as an experiment. That sometimes leads on to small rodents. That sometimes leads on to cruelty to small pets. It escalates.

That behaviour is very often a clue as to what is going to happen when they grow up. Not always, but often.

This does not tend to occur in females.

This case, much like the Lucy Letby case, is so rare it cannot be used to draw meaningful conclusions about the group as a whole.

I think that happens a lot on American television. Less so in real life.

I can’t think of any of the boys I went to school with doing anything like this. In fact, I don’t know a single person who did this.

I agree that it goes without saying that males are a violent sex, but I also think women are relatively well represented when it comes to “generic” cruelty towards animals - the dressage Olympian who was in the news the other week, for example.

Yes, this case is pretty unusual- though by all accounts this man was sharing images and videos with others and discussing it all online, so not that unusual. I wonder how many of those online collaborators were female? Wouldn’t we all be surprised if they weren’t a tiny minority?

What are the stats on bestiality? What about people who get sexual kicks out of violence and torture? Mostly men or mostly women?

This case is at the extreme end, incorporating both of those. It’s just the most extreme end of the scale of male violence and depravity.

I'm afraid you are wrong. I have a close family member who is in a UK police force and tells me about this.

I knew him in my early 20's. Not well, but well enough to have a conversation. He came across as quiet, pleasant and geeky. Out of his group of friends, he was probably the most friendly. I would never have guessed and feel completely freaked out that I didn't pick up any unpleasant vibes from him.

To go back to the original post - I think it is terrifying that these people walk amongst us and we have no idea.
I'd like to think I have quite a good sense for avoiding dodgy people which is why this has freaked me out so much.

I can't stomach the pain and terror that this psychopath caused to those poor dogs. I want him to feel that pain.

How is it rare?

I've just googled for 2023 and many many pages came up.

This is far from rare, we just dont normally go looking.

So yes it can be used to draw meaningful conclusions about men.
Which most of us already knew.

Can I ask what phrase you Googled?

I'll Google it too and get back to you.

A Freedom of Information request to the Ministry of Justice reveals that between 2006 and 2017 there were 27 convictions in the UK.

That's 3 a year in a country of 67,000,000.

That's pretty rare.

I'll go and delete my browser history now.

Men who comitted beastiality 2023.

This case is in oz or new Zealand.

Worldwide we can guess that your figure is times a 1000 and just because that's all that were convicted in the UK, doesnt mean there aren't thousands more not yet convicted or found.

It's not a crime you commit in public, like rape. Rape is reported at roughly 50k every year, in the UK. We know that that's the tip of the iceberg in regards to rape.

This is such a bizarre thread!

This kind of thing is, thankfully, vanishingly rare. But, although male criminals are much commoner, roughly 15% of offenders are women.

In 40 years in the U.S, there were about 450 arrests, about 390 of them men.

I think trying to draw any conclusions from this borders on the ludicrous.

https://jaapl.org/content/early/2019/05/16/JAAPL.003836-19/tab-figures-data

Definition of wilful blindness.

I did Google this. It produces pages of cases. They are from all over the world and spread across many years.

Interestingly I also Googled Women who committed beastiality in 2023 and got....pages of cases. They are from all over the world and spread across many years.

It's widely known that, sadly, some small boys start dissecting insects as an experiment. That sometimes leads on to small rodents. That sometimes leads on to cruelty to small pets. It escalates.

I recently read "Coming Up for Air" (George Orwell, 1939). It includes casual, pointless cruelty to birds. It's described as "semi-autobiographical", which makes you wonder whether this was something he had either done or observed.

Further research:

Research does not consistently give precise rates, but classic studies indicate that 5 to 8% of males engage in bestiality, while between 3 to 4% of women do. .

Source:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282844608_Bestiality_An_Overview_and_Analytic_Discussion

I will admit it's more common than I thought. The percentages for men and women are pretty similar.