Girl Guides trans policy

[KareenaQueena]

Hello, are there any campaigners who want another activist to help reverse the Trans policy allowing any boy or man who identifies as a girl or woman to be part of the supposed girl-only organisation?

Or is there anyone out there wanting to join me? I'm using non-violent direct action to highlight the lunacy of their 'trans' inclusion policy. But I am alone in this, so far.

There must be a high percentage of parents who are not aware that boys and men could be sharing toilets and sleeping quarters with their daughters.

When I asked my Brown Owl about the policy she didn't know anything about it and said boys would never be allowed to use the girls facilities but I pointed out the policy states that exactly what would be allowed. She also wasn't aware of the TIM Guide Commissioner in Nottinghamshire who was found posing with guns and, wearing fetish wear under captions including "boobs do you want to see more?" and "behave or mistress will have to punish you"

I also asked her to find out who guided the policy. she told me Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence.

I contacted Girl Guides HQ to ask the same question and to ask which womens' organisations they asked, They failed to tell me which organisations and didn't respond to my question about womens' rights groups being asked.

Our girls are not confused. Our girls are being gas lit into thinking a girls body might have a penis.

Any advice welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

If you get this moved to the other feminism board (the sex and gender one) or just search there you will find other threads about GG.

thank you

I admire your enthusiasm but Girlguiding don’t care what you think.

if you’re a leader and you disagree with them about anything, including this, I understand both you and your children will be removed from the organisation.

their own audit recently said the organisation had racism, disability discrimination, Islamophobia, homophobia etc - I think they reckon it’s much easier to deal with the trans issue, which will clearly not affect most units so they don’t actually need to properly tell their volunteers about it, than deal with the above issues which affect many more people and are more tricky. AFAIK they provide no EDI training to their members and even those at the top of the organisation appear not to understand the law. I seem to remember the equality commission on Twitter saying they’d written to them to explain that they can’t just change the list of protected characteristics - which I recall they swapped gender and sex. Their arrogance is staggering.

you’re not alone in having these views but you won’t change Girlguidings position. Look at the protests their own volunteers put on about BGO and the activity centres - it got them nowhere.

I tried to explain to Girlguiding why they were wrong about so many things and they just silenced me - the fact they silenced me I think means they know they’re driving a ship full of people that don’t know what they’re doing and are therefore making a mess of it. They do this repeatedly to people. I’d much rather be able to change an organisation that I used to love and gave a huge part of my life to, but I’m confident they’re too far gone for this. Therefore I will enjoy watching with popcorn for the next few years while the organisation dies. I suggest you do the same. I never knew they were so f ed up until the last few years, and I think you’re probably at this point too - you probably don’t yet know what a mess they really are.

Incidentally, people don't seem to know - Girlguiding's investigation deemed Monica Sulley had done nothing wrong - or so her Facebook post suggests - and she was due to be reinstated to her multiple roles after a very quick investigation.

Quite a few people do know. I have had long conversations with the leaders about letting my teenage daughter go on camps - she's senior section so the risk assessment from my point of view is crucial.

(they incidentally were delightful, completely understood, gave me assurances and she went...)

....and Girlguiding have reported to the police some people who raised concerns about Monica Sulley or their trans policy. https://reduxx.info/police-contacting-those-concerned-about-trans-girlguiding-leader/
https://twitter.com/NinaKillen/status/1484089767511871494?s=20
https://twitter.com/NinaKillen/status/1483919288864063495?s=20
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1483793151131328517

And you know about their activities talking about leaders sexual activity? https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/11/02/girl-guiding-and-asexuality/

They're f ing mental. Steer clear.

But if you raise safeguarding concerns to Girlguiding and wanting assurances.... it appears you'll be thrown out.

It seems the stock answer (and yes, I have an older girl, who I'd not want sleeping alone in a tent with someone with a penis) is "our insurance will cover it". How will an insurance claim cover a teen pregnancy bloody destroying her future?

Hi, it seems hopeless. I cannot believe this has happened to a girls only organisation. Thank you for responding.

It's what i was thinking. There will be so many parents who don't know.

My eldest DD was a Brownie and my youngest is still in. I am trying to tread very carefully.

The only reason I found out about the trans policy is through attending a womens rights conference. My eldest finished Brownies a few weeks ahead of being to old because she didn't agree with it either. No way would I let her join Guides, But with my younder DD I was reluctant to pull her out as that would be unfair on her.

Inclusion is self-exclusion in these safe guarding matters.

So I told all the parents I know well enough, one was horrified (who thanked me for telling her) the others were indifferent. I had hoped they would be disgusted too but I had just got them to join through a recent drive as numbers were down!

But my DD knows she will never do the week away and already missed out on a sleepover.

'Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.'

Why are people not up in arms about this!

I heard that if you ask, you will be told in no uncertain terms that its not OK to even ask!?

There have been many threads on this subject. Not on this board, though. The other board: click 'Feminism Sex and Gender' at the top.

I admire you for this!

Scouts now accept girls though so it's mixed sex on camps, etc. They do a good job of keeping them segregated.

The trans policy is absolute nonsense, all it does is highlights the option that kids can switch if they want. Realistically, this affects so few. Numbers are going up, and no wonder bloody why when it's being rammed down their throats all over the place.

thanks, I'm new to this site and getting used to navigating it. i did try putting it on there but it wouldn't work.

Girls can join the scouts what's the difference?

Thank you! I have some campaign ideas and trying to see if there's an underground movement. Who am I kidding, as one lone voice and so many did amazing efforts to highlight the issue and that wasn't enough!

But I feel I need to do something positive, at least I can say I will have tried.

I spoke to the Vicar of the venue and he thought the policy was ridiculous, he almost didn't believe me until I showed him articles included the dodgy bus driver. He said he would speak to the safe guarding team, I've been waiting a long time.

Scouts chose to become mixed sex because of falling membership.

GG is still supposed to be single sex.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights

Link to the 'naughty' board, where women are allowed to discuss these issues.

Some of the many threads on Girlguiding:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4798837-girl-guiding

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4766788-girl-guides-strike-again

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4531851-Girlguiding-dilemma

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4605808-telegraph-i-will-not-put-my-girls-in-that-organisation-how-a-trans-crisis-engulfed-girlguiding

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4408927-safeguarding-issues-in-the-girl-guiding-movement

I find it's sometimes better to google 'girl guides mumsnet' or similar.

They don't put boys and girls in the same tent at scout camp as far as I know. Of course that might have changed. I hope not. I haven't come across any reports of men dressed in BDSM costume being accepted as leaders in the scouts either (unlike in the guides).
OP, the people who wanted the "feminist" board split don't like this topic being discussed.
It is only allowed on the sex and gender board. AKA the naughty corner.

Correct. Which in itself is a massive red flag to me.

even the people trying to save the activity centres exclude anyone who asks what happens to money from crowdfunding if not successful.

the organisation is so messed up. I didn’t even think it would happen in this country, let alone to such a long established charity.

The difference is safeguarding in place. It’s not about having boys or men in guiding. There have always been men in guiding, for example helpers at camps, often partners of leaders. But Girlguiding always said they needed separate sleeping and washing facilities.

But now they still say this but it’s on the basis of gender self ID. So you’d think of course you couldn’t have two men sleeping alone on the church hall floor with a group of 4-6 year old girls (rainbows). And you couldn’t. Until they declare they’re a woman, probably with a penis. They can literally just come in and say “I’m a woman” and will be treated as such. So today they won’t be allowed as they’re cis-men, but tomorrow they wake up and say they’re a woman and it’s all fine.

My “close relative” is a minister. He’s not so much concerned about the trans policy as the other lack of safeguarding such as repeatedly not following their recruitment policy such as getting a criminal record check and references. Has discussed with safeguarding and the essence is they’re tenants of the hall and the arrangements go no further than that. If you start interfering in other stuff you imply you feel yourself responsible for all other kind of 💩and no one wants to be involved in that. You don’t want held responsible for their 💩

The Scouts trans policy is actually very similar to Girlguiding. Scouts is often cited as an alternative on MN but in my view, many of the same issues apply.

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

(My underline)

Trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities of the gender they identify as.
Talk to the young person about which facilities they would like to use at regular meeting places and on residential trips. Remember, most young people would prefer privacy when using facilities.
Providing a range of options to everyone will not only avoid a trans person feeling singled out, uncomfortable or unsafe using facilities, but will probably make everyone else in the section feel more comfortable, too.
These practical ideas will help you to make sure everyone feels comfortable:

• Providing mixed-gender (also known as ‘gender neutral’) toilets wherever possible
• Re-labelling one set of toilets, or an accessible toilet, as gender-neutral
• Using venues with self-contained or individual toilets and shower cubicles that can be used by anyone
• Designating a private changing space for anyone who needs to use it
• Creating partitions using sheets or screens in changing areas, so that all members can have privacy
• Developing a rota, so that everyone can have private bathing / bathroom time

According to the guidance above, girls don't even get their own single sex toilet 🙄

Do GG still try to get girls who are gender-confused / 'identify as boys' to leave? That'd be another difference vs scouts. Single sex orgs are legal , discriminating against a subset of that sex stinks.