Page 7 | Rudeness to middle aged women - is this a thing?

NoNonsensePotato · 22/07/2023 01:19

OhamIreally · 21/07/2023 08:09

Well blow me down I didn't believe this but googled it and apparently it's true.

Very long longitudinal study as well. Related to finances and satisfaction in the family. Makes sense when you think about it. Women still make far greater sacrifices financially, earn less and do far more unpaid shitwork. So given that women are rational human beings (despite what some men may say) it probably makes sense that this has an impact on our happiness compared to that of men.

On the subject of the OP I am fairly invisible. Doesn't bother me too much except one occasion in Anthropologie where I was buying a very expensive dress. The young women serving talked to the other young women they were serving politely and cheerfully but served me in sneery silence. I was so taken aback and embarrassed I haven't been back since.

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I wonder if there's a connection to the fact that men are often judged on their financial success and we're more often judged on our looks. The former improves with age but the latter goes the other way.

ManAboutTown · 23/07/2023 09:05

I think society is becoming ruder generally.

I guess where I notice it most is on public transport and in the shops. It seems to be more prevalent in younger people and young women particularly. The middle aged and above of both sexes are usually polite. Not everyone and I've seen plenty of the younger generation in doing the right thing by standing up on the Tube for someone who needs a seat.

Karen, life TERF and gammon is a pejorative term that seems entirely acceptable to use in the public forum in a way that similar terms referring to race or sexuality are not. It is very unpleasant

OhMaria2 · 23/07/2023 09:11

OnToTheNextOneOntoTheNextOne · 19/07/2023 17:24

I'm 42, but probably look a bit older as it's been a hard few years and I can no longer be bothered confirming with femininity by wearing makeup etc.

It feels like I am encountering so much rudeness lately from strangers. Part of it might be that I am no longer tolerant of the rudeness of others and question it when it occurs.

Is this a thing? Or are people just ruder in general, regardless of age and sex?

Hundred percent yes! I'm 42, and had a baby at 40
The difference in how I am treated post baby with the excess weight and tired haggard look, to me at 39 is a real eye opener. Mostly in shops. Not just a lack of basic kindness/ politeness but outright rudeness.

FrugalKisses · 23/07/2023 09:42

OhMaria2 · 23/07/2023 09:11

Hundred percent yes! I'm 42, and had a baby at 40
The difference in how I am treated post baby with the excess weight and tired haggard look, to me at 39 is a real eye opener. Mostly in shops. Not just a lack of basic kindness/ politeness but outright rudeness.

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I kind of suspect mums get treated with less respect also – I don’t have children so just a sense I get.

ProfYaffle · 23/07/2023 09:55

I'm 51 and have noticed it in the last couple of years. Not everyone, not everywhere but definitely more incidents.

There's a theatre bar local to me which is quite extraordinary, I feel literally invisible when it comes to getting served. The guy behind the bar looks about the same age as me but will just smoothly look past me to virtually anyone else. I have to literally hop about about and shout 'excuse me!' before he acknowledges me. A younger woman was also working last time I was there and realised what was happening so she came over and served me.

What to do about it? Call him out in the moment? Write and complain? I don't feel like either would be taken seriously.

TheaBrandt · 23/07/2023 09:56

It’s worse for teens! Dd2 either gets leered at or vile comments from
men as she is attractive or gets told off for just existing! I’ll take invisibility

ASmallFurryCreatureFromAlphaCentauri · 23/07/2023 12:22

I don't think things have got worse as I have aged. Well-groomed, attractive, socially-able (female more often than male to be fair) people always either ignored me (if I was not useful) or bullied me if I wouldn't be useful to them and they thought I should be. As I have aged I have also worked out who is only being "nice" to me because they think I owe them my time and skills.

In fact I am far less likely to be ignored now than I was as a socially awkward, clever, unfashionable younger woman.

Mummyford · 23/07/2023 16:17

pepperaunt · 20/07/2023 20:04

I’m 59. I conducted an interesting informal study. I live near an expensive shopping area. As I’ve aged men have definitely not “seen” me, forcing me to get out of their way. I have an expensive handbag. If I’m wearing it and turn it to face the front they will get out of the bag’s way (DH will confirm, he finds it hilarious).

Sorry, haven't read the full thread yet, but do you think it's possible there's some confirmation bias in this scenario? That you might also change your posture and your stride when you do this and therefore appear more 'there' or more authoritative? I mean, I can't imagine my DH forcing a woman of any age out of his way, but equally, I can't even remotely see him noticing the branding on her bag.

Lydiahateswashing · 03/08/2023 08:40

I honestly think these things happen to all of us. How do you know it’s attributable to your age / gender?

Lydiahateswashing · 03/08/2023 08:57

Yet middle aged men are the most vulnerable to suicide.

I don’t doubt there may be some women who feel invisible. But there are doubtless also groups of men who are also invisible. Men are more likely to be homeless, for example.

A lot of what I read about females (on MN at least) feeling invisible is coming from women who seem to describe fairly middle class existences. Being ignored at the theatre, or in their office job.

Iwasafool · 03/08/2023 09:01

I do think you go invisible at a certain age, probably is in the 40s somewhere, but here's the good news as I got into my late 60s it got better, now I'm 70 it is lovely. Young men offer to carry my case at stations/offer help if I'm stuck like I was last week with my phone refusing to do something and a young man asked if he could help. It is usually young men, young women not so much, the middle aged not at all. I reckon they all love their grans so are nice to old ladies. The young women/middle aged aren't nasty or anything just not as proactively nice as the young men.

I can't think of any other plus points about hitting 70 but this is a nice one.

LulooLemon · 03/08/2023 09:11

I (apparently) have a young voice and sound as though I'm in my twenties. My name is also a popular name for females of that age.

Yesterday I made an appointment by phone. The woman at the other end of the phone was really friendly - until... she asked for my date of birth. I could hear the shock in her reaction and she asked me to repeat the year twice.

Upon learning my age, her attitude to me instantly changed from chatty and empathetic to pitying and belittling.

Can't wait to actually meet her in person. 😂

Caoilte · 03/08/2023 09:15

Lydiahateswashing · 03/08/2023 08:57

Yet middle aged men are the most vulnerable to suicide.

I don’t doubt there may be some women who feel invisible. But there are doubtless also groups of men who are also invisible. Men are more likely to be homeless, for example.

A lot of what I read about females (on MN at least) feeling invisible is coming from women who seem to describe fairly middle class existences. Being ignored at the theatre, or in their office job.

Is being ignored at the theatre or in the office less important? After all, the suicide rate in middle-aged men is also higher for those who are poorer compared to those in more prosperous circumstances, even if a common factor in both is emotional illiteracy.

OhamIreally · 03/08/2023 18:36

Lydiahateswashing · 03/08/2023 08:57

Yet middle aged men are the most vulnerable to suicide.

I don’t doubt there may be some women who feel invisible. But there are doubtless also groups of men who are also invisible. Men are more likely to be homeless, for example.

A lot of what I read about females (on MN at least) feeling invisible is coming from women who seem to describe fairly middle class existences. Being ignored at the theatre, or in their office job.

This isn't what this thread is about.

OhcantthInkofaname · 03/08/2023 19:02

I've noticed that I put up with much less bullshit as I age.

Pringleface · 04/08/2023 07:11

Lydiahateswashing · 03/08/2023 08:57

Yet middle aged men are the most vulnerable to suicide.

I don’t doubt there may be some women who feel invisible. But there are doubtless also groups of men who are also invisible. Men are more likely to be homeless, for example.

A lot of what I read about females (on MN at least) feeling invisible is coming from women who seem to describe fairly middle class existences. Being ignored at the theatre, or in their office job.

Amazing how often posters feel the need to pipe up ‘but what about the poor menz’ in Feminist Chat.

hopsalong · 04/08/2023 07:59

I'm two years older than you and I've noticed this a bit too.

For the last few months I've been waging a private campaign where I try to correct it, on behalf of other middle-aged women, by being as nice as possible to them in the street or other public places. For example: always letting them out at a junction where I would never wait for a man, waving them across at crossings, smiling, insisting on them going first when going into lifts, through doors, to look at something in a shop, paying small compliments, generally being respectful and kind and making them feel seen.

If anyone else would like to join my campaign, please do!

BrokeAsABone · 04/08/2023 08:16

hopsalong · 04/08/2023 07:59

I'm two years older than you and I've noticed this a bit too.

For the last few months I've been waging a private campaign where I try to correct it, on behalf of other middle-aged women, by being as nice as possible to them in the street or other public places. For example: always letting them out at a junction where I would never wait for a man, waving them across at crossings, smiling, insisting on them going first when going into lifts, through doors, to look at something in a shop, paying small compliments, generally being respectful and kind and making them feel seen.

If anyone else would like to join my campaign, please do!

I've been in your campaign for a while now! I go out of my way to be pleasant to any older/middle aged women I see, just in case they are getting a shitty time from other people. If a woman is with a man, I make sure I address her first and make more eye contact with her when I'm speaking.

LittleMoReturns · 04/08/2023 08:23

I’m 46 and don’t feel invisible in general. I’m nearly 6ft tall, though, and a bit hard-faced 😆 so I feel I have presence and people definitely do move out of the way for me. No rudeness from strangers etc. it’d be a cold day in hell for them if any fucker called me Karen.

I’m pretty much invisible to leering men now, though, but that’s a blessed relief. I’m aware of the way men now look at my 14 yr old DD and it’s horrible. I remember it so well, that feeling of being constantly checked out by men of all ages, and it nature my blood boil when I see my DD being leered at. That stopped for me around 40, partly profanity due to me not being ‘hot’ anymore but I do think having a general ‘fuck off’ demeanour helps.

LittleMoReturns · 04/08/2023 08:24

Excuse many typos

ReginaRegina · 07/08/2023 00:53

I think a lot of young people are intimidated by wealthy looking and well dressed middle aged women. I used to work in a posh market town and have seen these types of women complaining and throwing their weight around countless times before. I'd most likely have avoided eye contact too when I was a lowly waitress etc.

sawdustformypony · 07/08/2023 12:21

OhamIreally · 03/08/2023 18:36

This isn't what this thread is about.

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It is though. The OP asks "Or are people just ruder in general, regardless of age and sex?" I think Lydia was just comparing two different groups, the way she sees it. Seems perfectly reasonable of her.

RosaGallica · 08/08/2023 09:49

It variesasdo most things according to regional culture and location. In the northwest of England, which has always been sexist and has strong fashion trends, I was being told I was too old to work at 40. Also been told that grey hairs are disgusting. Never had a problem in the midlands, where more women refuse make up and excessive fashions. There are more older women visible in employment, and at higher levels, in the midlands too, and always have been in my experience.

Catspyjamas17 · 08/08/2023 09:57

Is that the same Midlands where I got "Not from round here, are you, shug?" True, I'm from 40 miles up the M6, but actually half my ancestors are from "here", so I kind of am.

I can't imagine that level of parochialism goes hand in hand with anti-sexism and anti-ageism.

The most sexist and ageist place I've work is the City (of London). Loads of banks, accountants and law firms with hardly any women over 35. Except for admin staff.

RosaGallica · 08/08/2023 10:59

That sounds like West Midlands, from the m6, and that could be another insular area I guess! I have had that kind of parochialism in the north west as well, but it’s less prevalent in East Midlands. Definitely pockets of it around the country.