Men annoyed when women take up space

[lovelypidgeon]

I'm not really sure why I'm posting this- just wanting to vent and discuss with people who won't minimise or tell me it could have happened to a man too.

I have truly had enough of men expecting me (and other women) to prioritise them and trying to intimidate me when I don't. This morning, I was filling my car up at the petrol station and the man who had been filling his car behind me was pissed off that I did not move as soon as he was ready. He got out of his car to tell me I was in his way and that he needed to get to work so I needed to stop what I was doing and move my car (with lots of swearing thrown in). I remained calm and told him that I was almost done but the fact that I was not shocked and submissive seemed to irritate him even more. At one point he said 'Am I going to have to take your keys off you and move it myself?' I told him that if he did, I would call the police, and took a photo of him and his car reg. He told me to go ahead, and to make sure I told them what a fucking cunt I was, then called me a stupid fucking bitch.

Before I had finished filling my car he left the forecourt by just reversing slightly and going past me (which he could have done from the start). Which I think makes it pretty clear that this was not about me holding him up, but me having the audacity to be a middle aged woman in his way. There were quite a few other people around but no-one said a word. I'm pretty sure that he will go off to work and tell his mates about the stupid bitch that blocked him in and had to be told. I also know that if I speak to people IRL about this many will either question whether I was in the wrong to be where I was, or tell me that I should have just stopped what I was doing and got out of the way to avoid an argument.

I am livid, and exhausted with this shit. I'm not sure why this has got to me so much- it's hardly the first time I've encountered this sort of thing. But I really feel like we're in a bad place when a woman can't go to a petrol station in daylight without being intimidated by a man whilst other men pretend they can't see what's happening. I want to do something about this (in general, not just this one incident) but can't actually think of anything that will make a blind bit of difference. What do other people do?

At this point in my life I am now aware that the man in these situations is incapacitated in some way. He lacks something. This prevents him from behaving normally.

It has nothing to do with you. His issue means he only treats women like this and not other men. He can control who he directs it at, but that’s still part of his “disease”. His perception of you as a target has nothing to do with you.

If I walk past a gate and a vicious dog jumps up and barks madly, I’ll get a fright and my heart will beat out of my chest but I’ll also know that the dog’s perception of what’s happening is limited by its lack of awareness, and its behaviour is driven by its nature and its previous experiences. I want to get away from the dog and be safe, but I know its behaviour is no reflection on me. I feel the same way about these men.

I agree OP

In a way, I think it happened more when I was young. like they think yiunger is easier to intimidate? But it might be skewed by the fact that I am out a lot less?

most memorable example for me. I was about 25. Flight from Miami delayed till late, then cancelled. Typically, airline company left one poor rep to deal with queries alone.

I waited in the queue to talk to the rep. My query might have taken longer than others, because I could have gone to another place in the US on an internal flight and stayed with a relative. But believe me, me and the rep were exchanging info as fast as we could. We were both very calm and polite.

man behind decides we are taking too long. Walks forward and shouts across "what the hell is going on, I need to know what my options are".

me and rep simultaneously, very quietly
me - this lady is serving me at present.
rep - I'm dealing with a customer, could you step back please sir?

man - YOU TWO NEED TO CALM DOWN AND SORT THIS OUT!

me - we're both perfectly calm. Are you?

man - storms out, loses place in queue.

props to the rep - customer service reps are so kind, I don't know how they do it!

but yes, it's a thing. Willy waving?

This is so wise and calm.
I will try to remember this point of view when I am contending with the seemingly increasing number of these men
I am becoming increasing wary of them as a result and regard them as something lesser.

In a way, I think it happened more when I was young. like they think yiunger is easier to intimidate? But it might be skewed by the fact that I am out a lot less?

I think you're probably right, but in my younger days I would probably have either assumed that I must be in the wrong, or wanted to avoid being seen as provoking the man, and would have just stopped what I was doing and moved away as quickly as I could then gone home to have a cry. As a menopausal woman I feel more angry than upset and have the confidence to know that he is in the wrong. In this instance I had my back to the man (filling my car) until he decided to approach me, so I wonder if perhaps he thought I was younger than I am. Which actually makes me angrier. Part of me would like to post the photos I took on SM so his mother/wife/sister/daughter know what sort of man he us but I am fully aware that I would almost certainly receive more abuse over it than he would.

I agree that this is very useful advice for managing how I react to these men, and how angry I allow them to make me. But I would really like to think that there could be something that we (society as a whole, not just women) could do to make it so that our daughters and granddaughters don't have to put up with this shit.

So sorry this happened to you @lovelypidgeon sensible advice from @Mamette though in reality I’d have given him a mouthful and plastered his reg number complete with details of the exchange over the local FB chat group - don’t be as daft as I would want to be 🤦‍♀️

It's enraging. A while ago I was at an appointment and had parked in the car park next door. When I went back to my car, it was blocked in. I had to collect my DDs from school so panicked slightly. The chiropodist I had seen helpfully went door knocking to see whose car it was and we identified the driver. I asked him politely to move the car, explaining as above (although as he had blocked me in, I went above and beyond here). He was so bloody rude about it, took his time and clearly saw me as an inconvenience. He was having a hair cut. When he finally moved his car, he still made it as difficult as he could for me to get out and could easily have reparked in a (by then) vacant spot. I was livid. If it had been my husband asking, I'm sure the response would have been very different.

You were legally parked and he blocked you in?

Yup. I am feeling as enraged recounting it as I did at the time.

Oh my god.

I wonder if he'd just wanted fisticuffs from a bloke.

Possibly. The worst bit is that as I was waiting for him to move it, I was vaguely apologetic because I needed it to be done asap and he wasn't moving. Years of conditioning about how to get angry men to do what you want 🙁.

I’m sorry your week started in this way but well done for staying calm and standing your ground, it’s not easy to do that.

I personally would plaster it all over my local Facebook chat with just a summary of the exchange. A lot of men seem threatened by the suggestion that some men just hate women so I would just focus on the incident itself. Hopefully he is employed locally and his employer will spot it as well as his family and friends.

I’ve also started standing my ground more in situations where I feel safe to do so. A couple of months ago I entered an M&S car park through the exit rather than the entrance as I misread the signs. My mistake but a man pulling out of his space saw me and, instead of waiting where he was so that I could get past, drove right up to me so that we were head on, started shouting and beeping at me and insisted I reverse all the way back out of the car park. I apologised once but then refused to engage, switched my engine off and just calmly watched him go mad. After a solid 2 minutes of shouting I may have comically mimicked his anger. I was in the wrong but his response was so disproportionate and he would never have behaved like that towards a man. In the end, I started to come out of my car to go and and talk to him and it was only then that he stopped and reversed about 2 metres to allow me to get past.

A slightly different example

I am in a number of online groups for runners. It's very, very rare to have a female only discussion thread. Not least because most issues affect all, but there are threads about eg men's need for athletic support - which don't get scribbled on, nor joggers nipple which tends to affect those not wearing sports bras (ie overwhelmingly men). And discussions about sports bras are usually OK (just a bit of kit?)

But when there was one about managing periods on long runs, the men were out in force telling us it was an unsuitable topic.

They were told where to get off - but why did they feel they were gatekeepers of the discussion in the first place?

I'm still cross

All true.

A few years back when I was working in London I did an experiment for a few days. For a few days I just simply walked down the street. And did not deviate my path in order to step around men who were walking in the opposite direction towards me. Turns out women usually deviate around men when they are walking. Men expect women to do so. The number of times I literally ended up bang on face to face with men because there was no way they would slightly go off their path to go around me- a woman coming from the other direction.

It was also amazing how antagonistic some men got about it. I'm just walking down the street like there were. But they literally just expected me to get out their way.

Not had any car incidents but I'm sick of being physically moved out the way. It always takes me by surprise and they've gone by the time I gather my senses enough to respond. Who the fuck thinks it's ok to grab a woman's waist from behind and physically move her because they're too impatient to wait?

Whenever I encounter this type of men, I whip out my phone and start recording them. Tell them that I am live streaming on Instagram/ Facebook. Works miracles to repel this specific type of cockroach. Because you see, they’re only doing it because they think they can get away with it.

I hear you OP. If I'm ever intimidated in my car, it is ALWAYS by a man, never by another woman. There are just some men who are nasty, misogynistic bullies and any women who dares to get in their way is fair game.

He got angry because you were still filling your car and paying for your petrol? And actually wanted you to stop refueling or paying to get out of his way?

That's extraordinary.

I have encountered similar. At first for a long time I was intimidated and scuttled off.

Now I am older and don't give a shit. I initially get a bit of a jolt when it happens, but gather myself and raise an eyebrow, give them a big wink and a smile and carry on best I can. If they keep on going I point to my ears and mouth DEAF to them, sorry I can't hear you at all. That works - and I am deaf, but have brilliant hearing aids and can lip read. Just saying it could work for others to pretend.

When they cannot intimidate with loud voices and threats it is no good for them really.

That is not to say that I am not frightened by the threatening and intimidating behaviour, but over the years I have learned strategies. I even asked a young lad on the tram to get his filthy feet off the seat. Well I didn't say anything, I just did the raised eyebrow and moved my head in the feet seat direction. He moved them and I smiled in acknowledgment and gave a thumbs up. Shouldn't have to but it worked.

Urgh. Poor you OP.
And the fact no one stepped in is also urgh. These men would think again if called out.

Blimey, where is this happening?

I will say, I've been in the car with a man driving, when another man just starts up a road rage incident over nothing.

OP, I am totally with you. Hope you're alright after that encounter with that total anus this morning x

Tbh I hate it when people faff at the petrol station. What were you doing that took so long that he felt the need to be so rude to you ?

His behaviour is shocking I'm not condoning that at all. But you must have been delaying him unnecessarily to provoke rhar reaction

After you’d paid and got back in your car, are you sure you weren’t sitting there doing make up / looking at your phone / stirring coffee / rummaging in your handbag etc.? Cos that would just be about being an annoying human rather than anything to do with being a woman.

I would be tempted to report that - it’s verbal abuse in a public place. Plus you have the pictures/footage.

If I am feeling up for it, I’ll sometimes confuse/wind them up still further by going over the top in the other direction: ‘Oh Is everything all right?’ in my best silky-smooth peace-and-love voice, while continuing to do exactly what I was doing. It puts it completely back on them, though it helps that I have quite an ‘innocent’ look, even in my forties.

Oh and tailgaters, I just drive very slightly slower while maintaining my road position.