Men annoyed when women take up space

[lovelypidgeon]

I'm not really sure why I'm posting this- just wanting to vent and discuss with people who won't minimise or tell me it could have happened to a man too.

I have truly had enough of men expecting me (and other women) to prioritise them and trying to intimidate me when I don't. This morning, I was filling my car up at the petrol station and the man who had been filling his car behind me was pissed off that I did not move as soon as he was ready. He got out of his car to tell me I was in his way and that he needed to get to work so I needed to stop what I was doing and move my car (with lots of swearing thrown in). I remained calm and told him that I was almost done but the fact that I was not shocked and submissive seemed to irritate him even more. At one point he said 'Am I going to have to take your keys off you and move it myself?' I told him that if he did, I would call the police, and took a photo of him and his car reg. He told me to go ahead, and to make sure I told them what a fucking cunt I was, then called me a stupid fucking bitch.

Before I had finished filling my car he left the forecourt by just reversing slightly and going past me (which he could have done from the start). Which I think makes it pretty clear that this was not about me holding him up, but me having the audacity to be a middle aged woman in his way. There were quite a few other people around but no-one said a word. I'm pretty sure that he will go off to work and tell his mates about the stupid bitch that blocked him in and had to be told. I also know that if I speak to people IRL about this many will either question whether I was in the wrong to be where I was, or tell me that I should have just stopped what I was doing and got out of the way to avoid an argument.

I am livid, and exhausted with this shit. I'm not sure why this has got to me so much- it's hardly the first time I've encountered this sort of thing. But I really feel like we're in a bad place when a woman can't go to a petrol station in daylight without being intimidated by a man whilst other men pretend they can't see what's happening. I want to do something about this (in general, not just this one incident) but can't actually think of anything that will make a blind bit of difference. What do other people do?

Ick.

DH's gym seem to be pretty good about jumping on this sort of thing and certainly, I notice it's very female centric in that whenever I'm there (swimming with the DC - I don't use the actual gym!) there are a lot of women clearly in workout gear and very few of the sort of cliched gym men. So I suspect women feel mostly comfortable there vs other gyms.

I've done the keep walking is a straight line, I call it patriarchy chicken but it's the same thing. I too have been mowed down, shouted at etc.

It's as if men dont listen to women or something.

Oh yes because they dont, hence your post.

Interesting isn't it.

My intention in starting this thread about bring intimidated and threatened by a man was simply to vent a bit and get some ideas on how other women deal with similar encounters. Lots of women have responded with examples of similar encounters. But still we are expected to listen to a few men who have come in to a feminist space to basically tell us that we're making it up/over-reacting/must have done something to provoke the man etc. And one accusation that we're not being kind (as women should be) when we make it clear that we are not impressed. Enlightening.

I have had this. A man in a van didn't like that it was my right of way so deliberately drove into my car and knocked off my wing mirror. I pulled in and went to retrieve it. He got out of his van and marched up to me, screaming sexist abuse in my face. I was 8 months pregnant at the time. His friend stood a couple of metres behind him watching, and did not say a word. I just stood there looking at him and when he finally stopped shouting I took out my phone, took a photo of him and his number plate, said "you might want to read the Highway Code" then turned and left. I managed to remain calm but it was very intimidating.

This thread has reminded me of that wonderful scene in Promising Young Woman where she takes a crowbar to the van of an abusive road rage man. Wish I had the courage to do that and get away with it!

Those posters who have noticed that their partners don't get out of the way of women "but I think it's because he's just oblivious rather than sexist":
That is the patriarchy in action. Where one sex is conditioned to be considerate of and make way for others at all times...and the other....just isn't. No reminders that other people even exist. You just do your thing mate 🙄

I also played patriachy chicken on my commute in the City some years ago, and found so many men walked into me! Some very deliberately and aggressively barging into me and bruising my shoulder as they passed, as a "punishment" for having the temerity not to move out of their path, I guess. I didn't realise this was a "thing" that had a name, it was just an experiment I did when I suddenly realised I'd been moving out of their way constantly.

Absolutely. It's the very definition of patriarchy.

Yes, the City is the absolute worst for that. I've not noticed it anywhere as near as much elsewhere. The level of entitlement, with added stress, is unreal.

Well when we do become more assertive, usually as we age, we get called a "Karen" and abused for that!

That is one of the reasons why I hate the term karen. I always pull people up on it. It;s misygonistic and a means by which to put women back in their place.

I had to laugh at the man on the thread who felt we were all overthinking because oddly enough he does not experience everyday misogynistic microaggressions. Women's experiences are dismissed as hysteria.

Talk about making our point for us.

When a man claims there is no misogyny you know he is a misogynist. Apparently the thought process is that " it is only misogyny to claim that women are less than men in areas where they are not less but I only act like they are less in situations where it is true. Therefore I should just proceed as before".

Funny that a pp mentioned a pram, but when my mam was young, many many years ago she was pushing her newest baby in the pram with at least 2 other small dc in it when someone she knew stopped to take a peek in at the baby. They were blocking the path momentarily it's true, but a passing policeman flew into a rage at my mam and told her that as a pram is a wheeled vehicle she should be on the road with it, and he would arrest her if he saw her again. She was terrified, and has never forgotten how upset she was. He no doubt went about his day, raging at any other female who got in his way.

Thank you.

Maybe the pram user has a little less mobility then a heavily pregnant woman but when has the convenience of anyone pushing a pram/buggy outweighed the potential damage of an impact with the unborn. Swop entitlement for consideration and this is the net result

But there’s only a potential impact if the pregnant woman also doesn’t take avoiding action, and as you’ve just agreed that’s easier for her than the person with the pram. Surely anyone, pregnant or otherwise, could quickly identify that they were in line to collide and simply take a sidestep, knowing that it’s faster than for the person with the wheels to change course? When has the convenience of a heavily pregnant woman outweighed both the potential damage to her unborn from walking into someone and the convenience of another person pushing a pram or buggy? Sounds like you’re possibly projecting entitlement onto the wrong person in this scenario as you’ve already accepted that the pram is less mobile.

We all make these micro-decisions constantly and subconsciously when walking where there are other people. I know that I would move for anyone who looks less mobile than I am whether that be needing wheels to get about (pram, pushchair or wheelchair), heavily pregnant, on crutches, trying to wrangle small children, because they appear old and a bit wobbly on their feet, or any other noticeable reason. Anyone else takes their chances, sometimes they divert, sometimes I do, sometimes we both do and we end up doing the weird pavement dance! 😂 Entitlement is assuming that everyone else will move out of your way whatever their comparative mobility or complaining when they don’t, consideration is recognising that actually you can more easily move than someone else can and doing so without a fuss.

Men like this just need to be told to fuck off. Despite all the posturing most know that they won't get away with being violent to a random woman like they might a random bloke.

I’ve found the patriarchy chicken posts very interesting, in my beautiful youth men ALWAYS moved out of my way, quite theatrically so too, as if to make a show of their gentlemanliness. So they also do the micro scan we do to access if we should move as @Sunbird24 said, and obviously make the decision only with their dicks….

This just reminded me of the time I was in a shopping centre, walking along minding my own business when my boyfriend at the time yanked me off course to let a bloke go past and gave me a lecture about being rude/arrogant, etc. I couldn’t work out WTF he was talking about and then he told me that I should have moved out of my way for the bloke. I asked why him in particular - there were lots of other people also moving towards me at the time, and then. I realised….. that one was a man.
He was an ex-boyfriend very shortly after that. (There had been other signs of controlling, sexist crap - but that was a doozie.)

Obviously only ugly men are sexist arses

@007DoubleOSeven i think you’ve got the wrong end of @WhatsErFace2020’s stick - she’s saying that men used to theatrically move aside for her when she was a beautiful young thing.

@Sunbird24 you're right, I misread - thanks

I’ve noticed that men expect me to get out of their way. If I am walking and it’s a situation where either me or him has to move to the side to get past, the man nearly always just keeps walking and just assumes and expects I will move to the side.

Your post has inspired me to never move aside again.

Behold a man has spoken!

To declare women are over- reacting and wrong about our common experiences!

Right back atcha mate! I suspect you don’t realise how often you keep ploughing straight on, don’t notice women moving aside. You probably don’t notice how often you speak over women and dismiss what they say either.

Years ago I was walking to the shop after the school run with DS2 in the pram, he was about 6 weeks old at the time. Some idiot had parked his van blocking the entire pavement, so I had to move into the road to go around. I had the audacity to shake my head as I walked past. So he got out of the van and followed me to the shop, screaming abuse at me the whole way, calling me every name you can think of and saying I probably never worked a day in my life - not sure what my employment status had to do with him parking like a twat, but there was clearly a connection in his mind. It was absolutely terrifying, I felt so vulnerable, I was six weeks PP and had my baby with me, I was genuinely scared he was going to physically hurt me, he was that angry. And in hindsight, it's very clear that he targeted me because I was in such a vulnerable position and wasn't likely to fight back, because he backed off once we reached the shop and there were other people around.

That was just the worst one. I've been yelled at for crossing a road (driver ran the red light), not crossing a road (driver stopped when the light was green, fast moving traffic still going the other way), folding my buggy on the bus (apparently I took too long), multiple times for just being in their way and not moving fast enough. It's always men. I've never, ever experienced the same aggression from women. These days when they start I just stare them down and say "excuse me?" in the same tone I use when the kids are being rude, that works most of the time.

@ASatisfyingThump - my dad used to be a Special Constable, and one day he was in the station, talking to the sergeant when a lorry driver came in to complain about a woman with a pram who had had a go at him for blocking the pavement with his lorry. “There’s the ugly cow” he said, pointing to a woman walking past with her pram. “That is my wife” replied the sergeant. The lorry driver went bright red, apologised, and left!

I NEVER move out of your way for a man. Ever. Learnt that working in the City. The men just expected the women to move. Nope. Not me.