Amber Heard&Johnny Depp post verdict

[Miscfeminista]

Continuation of previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4560089-amber-heardjohnny-depp-verdict?page=1

and the one before(during trial):

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863

Also, refresher on DV:

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/recognising-domestic-abuse/

So basically, if she just kept her mouth shut all would be well and also, if she had to talk she didn't have to do tell all. How unladylike

She also never"photoshopped"any pictures. There was that ONE picture that seemed less red than the other that was otherwise identical and did not in any way magnify or create the bruise. This has been thoroughly discussed on previous threads.

Re"To witness intelligent people argue about donated/pledge to try and justify it was not a lie has been spectacular."-it was spectacular people pulling strawman on that by trying to claim she somehow stole her own money by not giving it when people who were not informed on charity donations anyway perceived she should have donated everything sooner.

To witness intelligent people argue about donated/pledge to try and justify it was not a lie has been spectacular.

And yet this type of donating over time is commonplace and the terminology is accepted too. I agree it doesn't have the same meaning in everyday language but that's celebrity and PR for you.

She has photoshopped photographs in evidence, how is a jury meant not only to believe her but rule against someone on mainly her words.

Partly because that's not the only piece of evidence. I don't think it was shown they were 'photoshopped' anyway, although I think the filter was changed on one.

She also never"photoshopped"any pictures. There was that ONE picture that seemed less red than the other that was otherwise identical and did not in any way magnify or create the bruise. This has been thoroughly discussed on previous threads.

Re"To witness intelligent people argue about donated/pledge to try and justify it was not a lie has been spectacular."-it was spectacular people pulling strawman on that by trying to claim she somehow stole her own money by not giving it when people who were not informed on charity donations anyway perceived she should have donated everything sooner.

You said it all better than me, Misc! 😄

@Aspiringmatriarch 😂I feel like we're doing some English class exercise: "In how many ways can you say the same thing?" because most of it has been discussed way back on first threads, now we are here to test our creativity answering endless ShE's A liAR statements

"She also never"photoshopped"any pictures. There was that ONE picture that seemed less red than the other that was otherwise identical and did not in any way magnify or create the bruise. This has been thoroughly discussed on previous threads"

She enhanced the same pic (or hue) but used the same pic as evidence in two separate incidents. So one of the incidents, that picture was essentially fake

Nevertheless if we are to believe Amber about the physical and sexual abuse which there are many that do....

She was prepared for this to be overlooked if he stayed with her.
She wanted the relationship to continue after the TRo.

She met up with him, was she doing this to negotiate getting back with him, giving him another chance to say he loves her or was she there to be provocative to start another fight.

The relationship had been bad for a number of years with Amber taking photos as evidence. I know myself I documented and took photos, I do believe that photos would have been taken at the time of the very bad injuries.

It had become so toxic as to every move they made it was in realisation the other would use the information after or during divorce.

As posters say we are allowed to end a relationship for whatever reason but I do not think Amber was allowing him this, she did not want the relationship to end.

I think Johnny's comments about not looking her in the eye shows the level of hatred he feels towards Amber for her actions. I don't think Amber had that same level of hatred, I bet she does now.

Lets move on were her comments, don't bring this to court just leave me be, to state my case to the world, let me destroy you and you just go away, remain quiet and allow me to be the victim.

The truth is unpalatable. Society is far more comfortable with the idea that most women are likely liars than that a large proportion of males are capable of, or have committed, violent or unwanted sexual behaviour against women. Having more than once been the victim of such crimes, I have first-hand experience of how pervasive these attitudes are.

@carolineshaw that's basically my position.
Nothing to do with men, basically about fairness for women

The changing of an original photograph that they are visually different is photoshopping.
if by using words the recipient has incorrectly formed an opinion that you know is incorrect you have mislead them. People believed Amber had donated the entirety of her divorce settlement. She at no point corrected them either in court or on the television.

Aspiringmatriarch · Today 13:47

Nonetheless, she did not write the title and nor did she name Depp explicitly. So the court case was based on an article in which he is not named.

Which might have lost Johnny the case or damaged his chances if Amber hadn't explicitly stated on the stand that she wrote it about him.

She was a difficult client to control for Elaine and Rottenborn. She had a tendency to weaken her own case over and over again.

She was prepared for this to be overlooked if he stayed with her.
She wanted the relationship to continue after the TRo.

She met up with him, was she doing this to negotiate getting back with him, giving him another chance to say he loves her or was she there to be provocative to start another fight.

All fairly common tbh.

I don’t know why it is assumed that people are desperate to get out of abusive relationships, often people are desperate to stay in them.

Some people have to be persuaded to leave, some people leave, take out injunctions and return - multiple times, with some you have to accept that they will never leave.

Pardon, there was another ridicilous comparison of pictures of her arm bruise where pictures looked slightly lighter or darker. Again in no way has it created or changed the bruising, to me it looked like she tried to make the picture more clear, not different if she actually made those differences herself(or someone of hers). If you believe her this is not concerning but if you were set to portray her as an unstable and unreliable liar then this is"the grand evidence"that she's just that.

I think there are bigger inconsistencies if you were to point them out. TMZ testimony guy has brought nothing but confusion for example so I'd like to see evidence she was the one who tipped them and more importantly on which occasions and why but I've seen nothing clear cut so far

MarieIVanArkleStinks · Today 13:39

I also feel morally certain, although I only have the experience of one side, that being raped is far worse than being falsely accused of rape.

I wish I could be sure. I have not been raped although I have been sexually assaulted. I have not been falsely accused of any crime.

Rape is an appalling thing but so is having your career, reputation and life as you previously knew it destroyed when you are innocent of the accusation. To have your own children suspect you might be guilty. To worry that your partner thinks it's true. To be shunned by friends. To know that there will always be people who think no smoke without fire.

If the accusation leads to a prison term then things get even worse. It's a situation which goes on and on, not just as a horrible memory but as a form of psychological torture. You are a convicted rapist in the eyes of everyone and when you get out you're put on the sex offenders register for something you didn't do and will have difficulty getting any sort of job as an ex-convict and sex criminal. There's also the danger of being in a prison itself, especially as a sex offender.

Rape victims can also have part of the life destroyed by the experience and can get PTSD as a result. So I think it's much closer to call than you do.

That's the saddest part. On top of that, this is then used against those women as we can see

TMZ have the copyright to the video. Only the source, which Amber confirmed she filmed it, can give copyright ownership. No one else.

Also making the pic more clear. You can't do that really. The original was fine. It was changed as it was used as evidence for two separate incidents to look like two different pictures. I was shocked that her lawyers didn't pick up on this and entered it as evidence.

AdamRyan · Today 14:18

The truth is unpalatable. Society is far more comfortable with the idea that most women are likely liars than that a large proportion of males are capable of, or have committed, violent or unwanted sexual behaviour against women. Having more than once been the victim of such crimes, I have first-hand experience of how pervasive these attitudes are.

@carolineshaw that's basically my position.
Nothing to do with men, basically about fairness for women

Is that always true though? It seems to be that society in terms of the mainstream media, outlets like this and the film studios were very comfortable with the idea that Johnny was violent.

The sentiment of the general public began to change when the tape recordings were released. A lot of feminists involved with domestic violence activism dropped Amber as a result. The more and more people have seen of her the less and less they have believed her.

I think you are generalising too much which leads you to underestimate the danger that false accusations can do, especially if you have ideas such as 'believe all women'. Take women seriously, certainly. Take their accusations seriously, but don't imagine that one sex is incapable of lying about something so serious for malicious ends.

It is possible to fight against sexism and acknowledge that we have to be careful when it comes to accusations of violence made against men and not simply deny that being falsely accused will have no lasting effect on their lives or well being as you did.

"A lot of feminists involved with domestic violence activism dropped Amber as a result."

That may be true but not neccessarily because they all don't believe her but because they can't afford to be discredited alongside her. Just like with some other companies or whoever dropped her in meantime, it's more that they don't want or can't afford bad PR.

"It is possible to fight against sexism and acknowledge that we have to be careful when it comes to accusations of violence made against men and not simply deny that being falsely accused will have no lasting effect on their lives or well being as you did."

Oh yes...we need to be careful and tip toe around men's wellbeing and feelings and we also need to take care of them in case they get"falsely accused"(because there are men who get accused of something they actually haven't done but in a lot of other cases it seems they call themselves falsely accused simpy because they deny they done anything wrong or when their victim failed to prove it despite it being true, like in AH case)

Rates of false accusations for crimes are tiny
Conversely getting a conviction for rape is extremely hard
There are far more men walking around who are rapists and get away with it, than men who've been falsely accused
Statistically, a high proportion of those "not guilty" actually did rape someone, it just can't be proved

The myth of the "false accusations ruin lives" is what upholds this state of affairs. It really should be unacceptable in a fair society for women to be unable to get justice for rape. However society prefers to protect men.

That seems to be what the jury thought too from the statement from jury person who got dismissed. If that's the case AH should have won on the physical abuse part.

"Reactive abuser"sounds like nothing else but"she made me do it". "She asked for it". Wow so progressive, so"egalitarian"

Misc
No it doesn't. It's an awful position to be in.

She had her make up artist report bruises and in the UK trial Depp's PA texts show JD kicked AH. Her doctor has notes saying she saw AH with a cut lip. She has an audiotape where he says he head butted her. Whether in self defence or not that is abuse. Surely there are better ways to protect yourself. There are other audiotapes where she claims he hit her and he doesn't deny it. Is that taken as confirmation?

But I agree, all the other incidents were successfully disproved by JDs team.

I think he lied about the finger incident on the stand. I believe the hand specialist who said it wasn't done by a bottle being thrown. In fact he lied about several things but that seems to be overlooked.

It seems to be that society in terms of the mainstream media, outlets like this and the film studios were very comfortable with the idea that Johnny was violent.

Isn’t that part of the problem though, that male violence is part of the wallpaper?

Personally I think that belief that false accusations are more common then they actually are and a general tendency to believe women are lying for attention/money/revenge/etc are more damaging than actual false claims themselves, which are relatively few.

It’s fascinating slash depressing how most seem to be counting her so-called lies while few are counting his.

Incidentally there is some audio where he was referring to himself as having cut his finger off.

I know.
And overlooking what kind of person uses blood from a severed finger to write abuse to their partner- then dips it in paint to write more when the blood stops

It's not the actions of a rational, kind human being that's for sure