Why would a woman say she's not a feminist?

[Mum2021askingquestion]

I recently made a new friend. Today, over a playdate with our daughters, she told me twice and in very strong terms that she's not a feminist.

I don't understand what she means by this.

Some vague background...

She is in her 30s with two children, one of each sex. Her husband, from what she's told me and the little from when I met him, is one of the good guys. They both work, both full time I think and my assumption is their salaries are fairly equal (I know their job titles and they're approx equivalent levels of seniority).

We've talked around some men being useless and others being decent, both regarding housework, childcare, and general behaviour. We seemed well aligned on this.

I didn't feel quite brave enough to say 'what on earth do you mean you're not a feminist? What part of feminism puts you off?' but I might next time we're chatting.

I've shared a few things with her which implicitly give the impression I'm a feminist, or at least for a modern equality between the sexes compared with old fashioned views of eg husband being in charge in a marriage and she wholeheartedly agreed.

I don't think this is anything to do with gender vs sex etc, I'm pretty sure this one isn't hugely on her radar.

Her daughter has been subject to low level bullying which relates to her being a girl and she was a strong advocate for her at school, we both agreed the boy needed a message this isn't OK just as much as the girl needed support.

Does anyone have a friend who would claim not to be a feminist who can shed any light on this? This is not a family where the man supports them both and the woman stays at home, that isn't their values. I'm confused.

She's a really interesting, warm, funny person and I'd like to stay friends with her. It just threw me.

I'm not a feminist. I am
Not at all interested in women's issues.

How can anyone, but feminist in particular support porn and prostotution?
The libfem position is about harm reduction and supporting the women sex workers. Also, liberal feminism is an actual thing that is not defined by its views of porn and prostitution.🙄

@TooBigForMyBoots

How can anyone, but feminist in particular support porn and prostotution? The libfem position is about harm reduction and supporting the women sex workers. Also, liberal feminism is an actual thing that is not defined by its views of porn and prostitution.🙄

That’s all you took from the message.

And libfems aren’t helping ”sex workers” much, when the only narrative aloud is how empowering and sex positive they are.
No critical thoughts.

They aren’t on the side of women.

And libfems aren’t helping ”sex workers” much, when the only narrative aloud is how empowering and sex positive they are.

That is not the only narrative on porn and prostitution in liberal feminism.

I’d be pretty disappointed if a friend of mine thought they were not a feminist as it would mean they somehow think of women as being inferior to men. Just as I would be disappointed if my friends were racist and thought black people inferior to white people.

@OuchWhatWasThat

“By the time I started to pay attention to feminism it was this horrible man pandering liberal feminism.
Empowering women with porn and stipping, hooking up with strangers and violent sex, free nipples and twerking in g-strings. Pussy hats.
They came off as unhinged.

I do not want this kind of world.
I believe women distancing themselves from male centric society.
Be independent and free.

Now all they shout is how feminism is for men, how men also suffer.
And men still aren’t happy. They still have hirrible things to say about feminist.

I tried to find feminist places, but it’s hard to find women who respect themselves.
This board on the other hand puts mothers high on the pedestal.
I don’t believe that women who has given birth are any better than childfree women.
So I don’t belong here either.
Also there is too much of nonsense about is makeup, shaving, changing last names etc. feminism?
Of course it’s not!
Yesterday there was a thread about the ”good husband”, they weren’t good.
How can a feminist have such a low bar?

Too many women still wants and need male approval, that why nothing will ever change.

Original feminist did amazing job, I am grateful of them.
Todays feminist, pathetic.”

Exactly! I agree.. liberal feminism for me is always about men and their needs. It’s dick pandering at its finest and I find it absolutely pathetic and embarrassing.

It’s a race to the bottom. Literally. How soon can you make sure that a man getting his dick wet is put as priority over a woman’s wellbeing is what it is. I’ve never seen such foolishness in my life.

Whenever they scream “have sex like a man” “do this or that like a man”.. it shows you they think women are inferior. Why do women have to do anything like men in order to be allowed to live our lives?

I knew it was all over when we were acting like porn was empowering, being choked and spit on was totally normal and when they were publishing how to manuals in teen girl magazines on how to have anal sex. The plot was completely lost once we started acting like making sure mens access to sex was a priority in feminism.

I read the most depressing article where teen girls .. some of of them were not even teenagers (12-13 yr old girls) were being told that if they gave a boys blow job he would kiss them or hold their hands. Or them being coerced into anal.. “because of porn this is seen as normal and the girls are told it is empowering to be able to detach themselves emotionally from sex acts. Because boys can do this and it is seen as feminist to be able to also be able to do so. So if you can have anal then not demand him to be your boyfriend, or give him a blowjob and then let him see how you are cool with it then you are seen as empowered. No girl wants to pressure a guy, but you want to be seen as a feminist and strong so you are willing to do sexual things and don’t want to be emotional”.

But to be fair I'm not convinced even the suffragettes were the type of people we should admire.

Creating the letter bomb and blinding innocent postal workers with it when it went off in sorting offices (this actually happened). Rigging bombs in churches, railway stations, and galleries.

It's sheer luck that more innocent people weren't killed and I'm sure most people would think differently if one of their children were maimed/killed by a bomb detonated in public as could easily have happened with all the bombs they set up in public places.

IME, most people who strongly identify with activism and ‘isms’ tend to be a bit maladjusted. Same with some feminists. Not so much the people that support it amongst other things but the ones who define themselves by it.

In my experience, it is usually women who are active participants in their own oppression (for example, those who think they gain sexy points with men if they don't stand up for themselves and if they parrot the same misogynistic bullshit- face down ass up, etc), or it's women who have a lovely partner, had a brilliantly supportive dad and have never come up against anything that would make them think feminism is something they need to support.

Maybe I can offer a different perspective. I don’t call myself a feminist either . Now in theory you can call me one because I do believe in equality between men and woman . However feminism in today’s climate is not just a belief , it is a social and political ideology. Therefore it is not consistent across boards and there’s different perspectives of what a feminists is . You have the likes of amber walk doing slut walks under the name of feminism then you have other feminists who have managed to find a way to get grid girls banned because according to them their jobs are sexists . As you can see both examples are a complete contradiction of what a feminist is . This is why I don’t declare myself to be a feminist because I don’t know which perception of ‘feminism’ someone will have of me when I say that . I am pro women’s rights but I don’t align myself with the feminist movement today.

@CaputApriDefero

In my experience, it is usually women who are active participants in their own oppression (for example, those who think they gain sexy points with men if they don't stand up for themselves and if they parrot the same misogynistic bullshit- face down ass up, etc), or it's women who have a lovely partner, had a brilliantly supportive dad and have never come up against anything that would make them think feminism is something they need to support.

Massively disagree with this.

The women who are kicking arse in high profile jobs and getting things on their terms usually don't call themselves feminists IME. My guess is because they're not particularly interested in spending lots of their valuable time whinging about why they can't do xyz because of xyz and bleating "oh, we live in a dystopia like 1984/Handmaids Tale."

Not read all the thread.
Although just thinking aloud, maybe because she doesn't align herself with radical feminist ideas?
It's possible to be a feminist and want to support all women though, even if it's not those you agree with.
Eg freedom of choice and knowing your own mind.
To some though that's not possible, you have to have been brainwashed and you can't possibly think that yourself, the patriarchy made you do it.
Or something.
I'll never align myself with "feminists" who only are for women who are the same as them or think exactly the same as them.
We're either individuals or we're not.

Maybe she just doesn’t like the current movement.
Sex work is real work crap, OF, ONS, bdsm, free nipples, nudity this nudity that, empower yourself with nudes and plastic tits and become a stripper….etc

It is very off putting.
I don’t know what the hell happened to feminism but it sure went to horrible direction.

I mean who do they serve?
Men.
Men.
Men.

It probably hard to believe but some women just don't feel the need to be a self proclaimed feminist.

@IStoppedBelieving

Maybe she just doesn’t like the current movement. Sex work is real work crap, OF, ONS, bdsm, free nipples, nudity this nudity that, empower yourself with nudes and plastic tits and become a stripper….etc

It is very off putting.
I don’t know what the hell happened to feminism but it sure went to horrible direction.

I mean who do they serve?
Men.
Men.
Men.

👏👏👏 so depressing