Menopause trainer "not a feminist"

[namechanging987]

I'm doing training this morning about menopause for managers. I've been impressed so far particularly because I was expecting "people" rather than women but that hasn't occurred. However, she stated during it "now I'm not a feminist" I can't remember the context exactly, something to do with the equality act, I just found this such a bizarre thing for someone to say, especially someone trying to promote menopause awareness in the workplace so women wouldn't be disadvantaged. She's a well known commentator on the topic, do we have very different interpretations of feminism?

How many other political ideologies might have been tangentially relevant to the training and should perhaps have been referenced?

'I'm not a Marxist but I'm happy to share this with you'

'I'm not a neo-liberal capitalist but I'm happy to support your company's efforts in the global marketplace by working with you today, to help improve your corporate efficiency'

and so on, ad infinitum.

'I have mixed views about the efficacy of Fairtrade versus a free market but it is time for a coffee break'

I think I want to run workplace training sessions.

I run a lot of training & I wouldn’t dream of bringing my personal political views into it

Her belief in feminism or not is completely irrelevant.

I would definitely feed it back

@whatswithtodaytoday

I would say something, tbh. I'm amazed that someone who provides training in menopause isn't a feminist.

I'm doing that training soon, I wonder if it'll be the same person!

I really don’t care as long as the info is useful and accurate. A lot of women I think believe in complementary roles not equality so it may be something like that (typically s/o religious).

At least they’ll believe in biology…

@AlfonsoTheDinosaur

It dismays me that the same people who claim that they support free speech allow it only when it tallies with their views.

Yes seen it in other threads it’s rather shocking. ‘Free speech for me not thee’ vibe

Why do I get the feeling that those posters who claim she shouldn't bring personal views into it would've had zero problems with her proclaiming herself a feminist? 🤔

@lottiegarbanzo

How many other political ideologies might have been tangentially relevant to the training and should perhaps have been referenced?

'I'm not a Marxist but I'm happy to share this with you'

'I'm not a neo-liberal capitalist but I'm happy to support your company's efforts in the global marketplace by working with you today, to help improve your corporate efficiency'

and so on, ad infinitum.

I can imagine someone saying, "I'm not a Marxist but I think these new union regulations will be very good for workers in this industry and I am now going to tell you how they affect your pension contributions.

It's a bit conversational, but some presenters have a conversational style. I really can't imagine any marxists getting upset about that because they can't understand how someone who is in favour of workers right might not be a marxist.

@AmandaHoldensLips

I probably wouldn't bother. It's an odd thing to say, but women who say "I am not a feminist" are generally lacking in self-awareness and are shit scared of taking responsibility for their own lives. They find feminists terrifying, and very much disapprove of the whole feminism thing.

These are women who bow to the patriarchy, and most of them are a lost cause. If they had to actually open their eyes (and ears) and acknowledge the reality of women's suppression, they'd probably implode.

What an arrogant post.

There's a few ruffled feathers on here isn't there?

This forum is chock a block with posts telling other women who identify as feminists that they aren't in fact feminists- they are "Vichy feminists" or hand maidens. Nicola "feminist to her fingertips" Sturgeon being a prime example.

Yet this Does she think men and women should not be equal? How odd is always trotted out for anyone who says they are not a feminist.

Apparently then posters on here get to determine that other women are not allowed to identify as feminists and also are not allowed to not identify as feminists.

I don't think I know any men who would disagree that men and women should not be equal. Does that make them feminists? Usually the received wisdom on here is men can't be feminists.

I really don’t care as long as the info is useful and accurate

I’ve been “trained” over the years sometimes by people who manifestly didn’t understand what they were talking about. As to believing in Biology, I was taught O level Biology by a nun who, at that time, was forbidden by the Catholic Church from believing in Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection. (She was sensible enough to allow us to read the chapter in the textbook by ourselves.)

I really don’t care as long as the info is useful and accurate

Well put. That's my attitude.

It was an odd comment to make but without any context it's unclear why it was said.

There may also be a possibility she said this to make participants feel more relaxed and engage people who may not feel they are feminists or are suspicious of ‘feminist’ issues for whatever reason.

@UsedUpUsername

There may also be a possibility she said this to make participants feel more relaxed and engage people who may not feel they are feminists or are suspicious of ‘feminist’ issues for whatever reason.

It was an odd comment to make but without any context it's unclear why it was said.

Both are good comments and provide more light than heat, which is what I want from a discussion.

Either way she’s entitled to her own opinion so if you liked her training, I wouldn’t comment on her opinions.

I would comment.
It's part of how she has presented the training so she needs to know how it came across to you.

@UsedUpUsername

There may also be a possibility she said this to make participants feel more relaxed and engage people who may not feel they are feminists or are suspicious of ‘feminist’ issues for whatever reason.

Good point particularly as a feminist here apparently thinks women who aren't feminists are generally lacking in self-awareness and are shit scared of taking responsibility for their own lives

and bow to the patriarchy, and most of them are a lost cause

I don't call myself a feminist because there is no common understanding of what that means. I know some feminists would not consider me to be a feminist at all and I'm not interested in arguing over it, or derailing a training session to debate the ramifications of different ideologies. I'm a feminist by some definitions and not by others - I don't consider it important to claim the word.

I also think it's fine for a woman to not be a feminist and believe she can still do a good job no matter her opinions.

@whatswithtodaytoday

I would say something, tbh. I'm amazed that someone who provides training in menopause isn't a feminist.

I'm doing that training soon, I wonder if it'll be the same person!

Why? Do you think only feminists go through menopause? For every woman who does experience menopause there is an equal number of different political, social, financial beliefs.

Yes seen it in other threads it’s rather shocking. ‘Free speech for me not thee’ vibe

Which posters are saying they would ban what she said? How would challenging her on what she said prevent free speech? Surely that's more free speech, an exchange of views? Freedom of speech is allowing people to talk bollocks and you also being allowed to call them out on it.

Also if a trainer came out with a racist view I would sure as hell call them out. If a trainer says "I am not a feminist" I sure as hell want to check whether they are either a) a bit thick, and misguided as to the definition of feminism, in which case I will merely be looking out for what rlse they might get wrong in the rest of the session or b) They are a raging sexist/misogynist who does not believe women are men's equals, in which case the session has no further relevance to me, and the trainer can get in the sea.

Jesus. It's not "thick" to not be a feminist. Women are allowed to have different opinions. Most people believe that women should have equal rights and I wouldn't assume anyone saying they're not a feminist is a misogynist! Not everyone subscribes to an ideology; some of us prefer to think for ourselves.

God, I hate these ideological purity demands. So I don't subscribe to your ideology, and that makes me thick, or a misogynist, and can get in the sea? Really, what a childish attitude. Is that what you do - just name call and smear those who disagree? So feminists are basically just the same as TRAs or MRAs? #nodebate you're a feminist or you're scum?

Interesting projection, there. It's not about you, unless you are the trainer. It's not about "ideological purity", it's about reading the dictionary definition of feminism. So the trainer is either ignorant or at best shoddily prepared to deliver their training. Or actually espouses anti-female views and is trying to make a point. I've worked with a lot of women who display a good deal of internalised misogyny.

Here's a tip for all trainers, male or female. If you don't like being challenged by an audience, DO NOT stand in front of a group of menopausal women and say "I'm not a feminist, but..."

I'm not the trainer in question, but I am a woman who has said, "I'm not a feminist" to various groups of women. I do object to being called names and having assumptions made about me based on someone else's demands for ideological purity and adherence to some set of beliefs I may not even be aware of. Is that feminist, to expect women to have a particular set of political beliefs, and to judge them when they stray? It's actually one of the many reasons why I say I'm not a feminist, because I don't want to be associated with that dogmatic approach.

Plenty of women who I would consider to be genuinely anti-women call themselves feminists. A pp mentioned Sturgeon, for example. Maybe the trainer does not want to be identified with wokesters or TRAs. Sometimes people just want to reassure you that they're not coming from a dogmatic ideological viewpoint, that they are speaking to every woman, not just those who subscribe to a particular set of political views.

But, in a workplace, one can speak to every woman without declaring one’s own possibly distracting views.

By sharing her opinion in that particular work environment that trainer would have ensured that she was not delivering her training in an effective way to me. And, I repeat, she is perfectly free to hold whatever views she chooses - in her private life.

I think feminist does mean different things to different people. Certainly on this forum it can be very academic in discussions with lots of first wave, second wave, dont like the liberal feminists. I dont really know enough about any of those to pin myself to them. I think a lot of people see it as a political stance and like to detach themselves from politics. I do think its a bit odd to say in a menopause talk. I wonder if she had been critised in previous talks for what she said next so put in a disclaimer.
I think if questioned they'd support education for girls, voting rights, property ownership, ability to have a credit card, bodily autonomy etc.

Thank you @HarebrightCedarmoon for so perfectly illustrating exactly why most women do not identify as a feminist

(Again link to article with sources here: www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-470069129