So instead of women having to register their route home…

[Ozgirl75]

I see the new idea to keep women “safe” (or maybe just to be able to find their murdered body more easily?) an app has been suggested so that women put in their route and if they’re late, a call goes to the police.
So, what about instead of that, men have to register their route before they go out - and if they go “off route” an alert is sent and they’re arrested.
Also, how about 2-3 nights a week, men have a curfew. Any man out after 8pm has to have a female chaperone, or if they’re at work, they have a permit and have to register their route.
Women have done the heavy lifting on keeping themselves safe for ages, how about we do some proper stuff to affect men for a change?
I don’t have answers for violence in the home - but maybe instead of blaming women and expecting them to constantly change their behaviour, men could do something.
This is somewhat tongue in cheek although the more I think about it, the more I think it should happen. Women are already mainly under a voluntary evening curfew, so how about we flip this.

Quite, OP. I refuse to modify my behaviour or learn self-defence.

No, I'm a just a scientist who doesn't like fake statistics being bandied about for any purpose. All what time? It only took a couple of moments to read the relevant paragraphs and work out the figures. I'm mildly curious how you came to be looking at those numbers to be able to pick out ones you (wrongly) thought indicated more female criminality in some area vs men. It's rather suggestive that it's you who might be reading through the lens of ideology. (Much like your views on what feminists think, which bear little relation to what we actually do think).

To the point you were trying to make - yes of course. And yes of course, the premise of the thread is untenable (the OP said it was untenable). It's a thought experiment really. Women's freedoms are, in practice, constrained in ways which are clearly intolerable when recast to some equivalent applied to men.

@CBUK2k can you just stop spouting innocent until proven guilty, and throwing around accusations of misandry and think about what the OP actually said.

She said the idea was ‘somewhat tongue in cheek’ but made her think. What it made her think was that actually women are effectively under curfew under the current situation. This is true. I don’t run in the dark. There are places where I don’t wear headphones while I am running. I don’t go out at night without a firm plan for how I’m getting home.

Of course nobody really wants to criminalise men for being out after dark. But what we would like is actual change that lifts the curfew from women. Change that means not every mother of a DD has had to have multiple chats with their girl about her personal safety as she enters each new stage of independent life.

Perhaps if guilty was not such a hard verdict to get for sexual violence crimes and domestic abuse, we could rely on ‘innocent until proven guilty’, but sadly we know that serial rapists and abusers are free as birds and re-offending. And the revelations about the scale of sexual misdemeanours within police forces has given new impetus to trying to change an aspect of the way society operates.

So maybe, contribute something positive to a genuinely needed discussion, rather than spouting a principle that isn’t in dispute.

[quote CBUK2K]@partystress I'm here because echo chambers are dangerous, because parts of MN seem to be a heaven for misandry.

Do you blame your husband or son for violent crimes against women?[/quote]
I love this. How, erm, impressively self absorbed it is!

Echo chamber? ONE single section of a single solitary site ion t'tinternet speaks out against male violence and ooh look! excusercisers arrive to point out that we are nasty wimmins.

Do I blame my DH/sons for violent crimes against women? No. But I do blame everyone elses, because I don't know them. And I fully expect that every other woman blames my DH, becaue they don't know him.

And nne of us can tell which male is one of the good ones and which one is a net contributor to the male violence against women statistics.

Of course, I could ignore the harm done, the violence i have experienced and just assume that no man will evey be violent towards me in any way whatsoever - cos that would stop hurting the feelings of those who feel maligned by my caition.

Sod how dangerous that would be for me!

I'm only a woman. Men's hurt feeelings are far worse than any violence, sexual asssault, rape a woman might experience.

Maybe @CBUK2K you could consider what safeguarding actually is. And then stop telling women to shut up moanng about male pattern violence.

Fathers for Justice, FFS!

How do you excuse Incels?

I find the indignation and outrage from CB because a couple of women on one thread on one board on one site have said what about men having a curfew. When EVERYONE knows there is ZERO chance of that happening.

Really interesting.

While around the world in some countries are kept under extremely tight control around when they can go out, where and with who. And yet women still get attacked.

Here we don't have that sort of explicit control, but nevertheless we receive message after message from when we are young. About the EXTENSIVE list of things to do to 'keep yourself safe'.

As I'm sure CB is aware men are at risk of attack when out and about. And it's not a negligible risk by any means. Yet I have never heard a fairly standard list of things that men receive from all directions about keeping themselves safe.

Parts of the list for women also apply to men. Re. Getting off your face, not deserting friends who are trolleyed, if on foot at night better lit routes better etc. More prob.

Why do women/girls get this list and men/boys not?

And why is our list focussed only on sex crimes?

And given most are someone you know, why all about strangers?

And sex crimes happen anywhere any time pretty much. So why does the list centre around fun and freedom?

There's something funny going on IMO.

Anyway.

It's always really interesting to see threads about MVAWG, one thread in one corner of the internet.

Get some people SO PISSED OFF that they feel driven to post to tell women off for being man hating witches.

IIRC the man who started FFJ down the line said.

Fact is I was a violent alcoholic and made their lives a nightmare.

If I was her I wouldn't have wanted me anywhere near the kid/s either.

But that he still thinks doing FFJ was the right thing to do.

So, what about instead of that, men have to register their route before they go out - and if they go “off route” an alert is sent and they’re arrested.
Arrested by who? Other men? The women?
How do you propose this is policed?

Also, how about 2-3 nights a week, men have a curfew. Any man out after 8pm has to have a female chaperone, or if they’re at work, they have a permit and have to register their route.
As above. Who will police this idea of yours?
Do you have female officers in each street corner ready to arrest all the men who don’t comply?
Where are you going to take them all?
What about the other 4 nights?

^This is somewhat tongue in cheek although the more I think about it, the more I think it should happen. Women are already mainly under a voluntary evening curfew, so how about we flip this.*

It may be tongue in cheek but as it’s never going to happen it might be better to think of ways that have the potential to work.

Everyone knows it's never going to happen!

It's often raised to highlight the fact that it's men who commit sexually motivated crimes against women and girls who are out and about, yet it's totally ingrained to see that as something we have to sort out somehow. Even though obv we can't.

Given you know it's never going to happen, I'd be really interested to know why you feel it's important to point out that it's not feasible.

This point has been made since at least the Yorkshire ripper. That we're doing nothing wrong but we're the ones who are heavily pushed into restricting our own freedom.

No to the app and no to a curfew for men. So has every man got to pre record every route home ? This would never happen and if it did then it will be a sad day as it would be a pathetic attempt as resolving this issue .
Sadly violence against women is something that is entrenched in negative views/gender stereotypes of men and woman that date too far back to remember. That’s the problem, views and expectations of men and woman are ingrained in society and change I believe needs to begin from education, families within the home and by organisations such as the police. I am not being negative but realistic that I don’t think I I’ll see this change in my lifetime. What’s ingrained for centuries isn’t a quick fix. Seen many posts on social media about how many great police there are after mr allott, police chief stated that women need to be streetwise. A comment like this in his position is despicable and fills me with dread about views of some who work in justice. I work in the justice system and I am disgusted at his comments, raging and I wonder what damage the likes of his views do within the police, has he went through his career with eyes and ears shut ?? If anyone muttered anything like that in my work they would be hung out to dry

SecondSister-

Given EVERYONE knows that cufews on men are never going to happen, I'd be really interested to know why you feel it's important to point out that it's not feasible.

Also your view is that it doesn't make sense for the police to be doing anything about MVAWG as it's ingrained and needs societal change which will take forever.

Don't you think eg the met doing better on this in the news today would help?

'Between 2016 and 2020, the Met - the UK's largest police force - recorded 530 allegations of sexual offences against serving officers and staff members, according to different FoI data, with 47 claims resulting in a dismissal.'

I don’t think it would be policed properly, how is this going to work ? Every man records every route home every night ? And then whatif you don’t record or plans change and you go off route? The police are then alerted to a potential concern ?

I don’t think it will resolve the problem that’s all I’m saying.

Nicegerbil I don’t understand the last comment. I’m not saying it dissent make sense for police to be doing anything about mvag, I’m saying the app won’t resolve this.

@SecondSister33

I don’t think it would be policed properly, how is this going to work ? Every man records every route home every night ? And then whatif you don’t record or plans change and you go off route? The police are then alerted to a potential concern ? I don’t think it will resolve the problem that’s all I’m saying.

You took that as a genuine real life suggestion?

No one thinks there's any chance whatsoever of anything like that happening. Ever.

You took it as a serious thing to call for? Rather than taking it as what it is? This point has been made since at least the Yorkshire ripper. Decades.

It's to make the point that telling women and girls to restrict their movements etc in all sorts of ways is standard. While the idea of doing the same to the group that is assailant rather than victim. Is seen as obviously laughably preposterous.

Ah ok misunderstood your post re second point.

Seriously OP don't you like or trust one single male? That's a shocking suggestion you just made there.
Almost unbelievable actually.

Hmmm.

Do you see this app being made for women in the same light? Or is it somehow different that anyone saw creating that app as reasonable.

What are your views on the many many ways women are advised to restrict their own freedom to 'protect themselves'?

Do you see the fact that women sometimes/ often do some or many things that restrict their own freedom as distrusting all men?

Do you find it objectionable when women do things like not going back with a group of men they just met, when they might do if they were all women?

Do you feel pissed off, in short. That women and girls tend to be cautious with men they don't know/ use longer routes that are better lit etc? If a woman would like to go running in woodland but doesn't because it's on the 'be careful' list. Do you find that deplorable?

And finally.

Don't you know what tongue in cheek means?

@NiceGerbil

Given you know it's never going to happen, I'd be really interested to know why you feel it's important to point out that it's not feasible.

This point has been made since at least the Yorkshire ripper. That we're doing nothing wrong but we're the ones who are heavily pushed into restricting our own freedom.

It’s important to point out because suggestions and ideas that are obviously not feasible are laughed at and not taken seriously. They undermine the cause and are hugely divisive.

@NiceGerbil

I find the indignation and outrage from CB because a couple of women on one thread on one board on one site have said what about men having a curfew. When EVERYONE knows there is ZERO chance of that happening.

Really interesting.

While around the world in some countries are kept under extremely tight control around when they can go out, where and with who. And yet women still get attacked.

Here we don't have that sort of explicit control, but nevertheless we receive message after message from when we are young. About the EXTENSIVE list of things to do to 'keep yourself safe'.

As I'm sure CB is aware men are at risk of attack when out and about. And it's not a negligible risk by any means. Yet I have never heard a fairly standard list of things that men receive from all directions about keeping themselves safe.

Parts of the list for women also apply to men. Re. Getting off your face, not deserting friends who are trolleyed, if on foot at night better lit routes better etc. More prob.

Why do women/girls get this list and men/boys not?

And why is our list focussed only on sex crimes?

And given most are someone you know, why all about strangers?

And sex crimes happen anywhere any time pretty much. So why does the list centre around fun and freedom?

There's something funny going on IMO.

Anyway.

It's always really interesting to see threads about MVAWG, one thread in one corner of the internet.

Get some people SO PISSED OFF that they feel driven to post to tell women off for being man hating witches.

As you say, interesting. Though predictable.

The misogyny is oozing out of the derailer. People are so kind trying to give reasoned responses but honestly, don't waste your time 🙄 He's here to EDUCATE us. It's nice when they start rambling about FfJ. When people show you who they are and all that.

@SecondSister33

I don’t think it would be policed properly, how is this going to work ? Every man records every route home every night ? And then whatif you don’t record or plans change and you go off route? The police are then alerted to a potential concern ? I don’t think it will resolve the problem that’s all I’m saying.

Given the real life suggestion is that women do this - amd presumably get their own menfolk to white knight them - do you not think the same of the original suggestion for women?

The point here is that nobody really said much when the gallant plan was unveiled. Some eye rolling perhaps.

But now it has been suggested that instead of monitoring the movements of women we monitor the movement of men all sorts of outrage is being expressed.

It is the difference in response that OP is highlighting.