Another woman killed during "rough sex"

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/07/darlington-man-jailed-for-four-years-for-choking-woman-during-sex?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

How do men keep getting away with this?

If it's so common, how come it's never - or is it just rarely - the male partner who ends up dead? Do gay men doe like this in consensual strangling? I won't call it choking; choking is an internal windpipe blockage like a chunk of unchewed food or an accidentally inhaled object. If done externally by hands or ligature of some sort, it's strangulation.

I guess even if you agree a safe word, it's hard for someone to utter audibly when their windpipe and major blood vessels are under compression.

If men don't die like this at the hands of women or men, it's hard to see how it can be as universal a pleasure as PPs insist.

And I certainly don't think a sample of half the female partners of a single male poster can be representative of anything except the possibly niche tastes of himself and the women who agreed to go out with him. If half the women a man has been in relationships with are red-haired, he cannot extrapolate that to the female population generally; it just reveals his predilection. If half my exes are musicians, it reveals only my personal preference and the pool of men I sought out as partners. I cannot wink knowingly and say,

"Guys, you'd be surprised how many lead guitarists are walking amongst you unrecognised - I know!"

RIP Hope Barden poor girl, I have a son the same age. So much life ahead of her, so much promise. Her killer was so cruel and callous, he didn't even have the guts to face justice. I hope he rots in hell.

RIP Natalie Connolly her story breaks my heart, I hope John Broadhurst suffers every day for the rest of his life, scum of the earth.

How anyone can come to this thread and justify abuse and torture to women, on a thread about abused and tortured women appalls me.

It's a measure of the low value put on all our lives, I believe, WeeDonkey.

I guess so NewlyGranny, its just so depressing isn't it?

CBUK2K-

how many women do you think would consent to/ encourage a man to stuff a bottle of cleaning fluid up her vagina trigger end first?

Just out of interest.

And how many women do you think choose the bottom of the stairs as the place to get down to it? I mean some sure. I'd think though if you were into extreme activities. Well I mean I may be old fashioned. I'd think a bedroom, somewhere with plenty of things to get tied to / plenty of things to use during. I mean if a general mutual interest then I'd expect there to be a big stash of accessories in a box or something. Probably not stored in the hall.

A reason that comes to mind for choosing the bottom of the stairs as a good place to have a bottle like that pushed inside you. I mean it's just a theory!

She had had so much coke and booze. The tests after put her in the 'coma/death' category.

She fell down the stairs or collapsed at the bottom. And then asked for him to get the kitchen spray?!

I mean tell me if your view is that I'd be surprised, plenty of women are into the foot of the stairs/ trigger bottle thing? I mean while capable of consent? That I'm out of the loop?

'Ms Connolly had suffered 40 separate injuries, including serious internal trauma, a fractured eye socket and facial wounds, and was bleeding heavily."

Women these days eh! Really throwing off the shackles of sexual repression.

Do you know what

If any man had ever said to me.

Tie me up so I can't stop you. Put something round my neck and throttle me.

Like any person with an ounce of common sense I would have said no way that's really fucking dangerous. Let's do something else, what else do you like?

I mean. Obviously. FGS.

It's gross negligence. I mean if people do it they do it. Private who will know.

One of them ends up dead. Well then. The strangler should be screwed. And rightly so.

Fast cars were mentioned earlier. Driver is reckless/ dangerous speed/ drunk etc. Crashes and passengers die. Does he get done? Of course he does.

This is a ridiculous comparison @CBUK2K participants of dangerous sports do so as individuals managing their own activity. Not as passive recipients of someone dangerously partaking of a harmful practice over which they will have no control.

Stop trying to defend your fetish.

Of course it's a tragedy when this kind of thing happens, no one can argue that. But the fact remains that those who partake in this kind of fetish fully understand the risks they're taking when they do it, you do them a disservice thinking otherwise. Part of the experience is the danger, the thrill, and I know that's hard for some of you to read and you'd rather demonise men than face a few cold, hard truths. But there it is.

They know full well what the risks are, and they do it anyway. Just like those who take drugs or do an extreme sport. Which btw IS also reliant on trusting other people - the person who supplies the drugs, person who checks your parachute for sky diving, the team who change a tyre for motorsport, the person who organises your rigging for rock climbing or pot holing.. So because that's their job does it make them less accountable if you die? Of course, because human error is a thing. It shouldn't - and doesn't - always lead to a murder charge.

People who partake in this kind of sex have done so many times, each time knowing full well it could end badly. So please don't insult their intelligence.

It's really no wonder some of you don't realise how many people - men and women - enjoy this as part of sex. You're far too judgemental for any of your friends to discuss it with you.

It's not my fetish, btw, so I'm not defending it for myself, but I've known many people for whom it is. Teachers, nurses, many parents, a gay couple in advanced years.. just to name a few. I can't say why I knew these people or give more details because it's outing for all, but I can say they were able to talk to me openly because I don't have my head up my arse, and I'm not intent on men being the devil.

Personal responsibility is a thing, time some of you remembered that instead of shrieking 'victim blaming' any time someone even suggests women should take responsibility for themselves and their actions.

Also I'm not a man, in case my name throws you off and I start being told I'm a mysoginistic, make apologist bastard and to go back to my incel Reddit threads again - probably the most hilarious thing anyone has ever said to me in all my years on MN. I just like to think I've managed to retain some of my common sense in the midst of this shit show you call feminism.

And don't bother to @ me for an argument or to tell me I don't care about women dying, because of course I do, I've already stated it's a tragedy. But I've said my piece and I stand by it. It's not up for debate, at least not by me.

@KurtWilde then surely men would also accidentally be killed in these situations . But as far as I can see in the news they're not.

[quote PattiPritell]@KurtWilde then surely men would also accidentally be killed in these situations . But as far as I can see in the news they're not.[/quote]
@PattiPritell A bit of research would show that it does happen, the difference is the media jump on it when it's a woman, not so much when it's a man. A bit of research shows that men do indeed die during sex games gone wrong. Stephen Milligan for one. But let's say the Russians did that to cover the fact that Tory politicians engage in fetishes. Ling Gu died during a high speed sex game with 2 women, his father tried to cover it up due to his high standing in the community. I'm sure there are more if you do your research but these spring immediately to mind. Choking is just one part of what goes on in these kinds of sessions.

I'm not saying it should be a get out clause btw. It's all too easy to use it as an excuse, and that needs to be taken into consideration. But making an example of one guy to try and deter others won't stop women and men wanting to partake in this particular fetish. There are also far more dangerous ones than choking btw.

So what's the answer? Outlaw BDSM? Because that's the only way you'll put an end to deaths like this - accidental or otherwise.

Stephen Milligan died in 1994!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I rest my case.

And Stephen Milligan was auto-erotic asphyxiation.

How many women don't know their own strength 'choking-out' a man? i daresay a woman's 'hands hurt' way before they kill someone - probably way before it's any sexual 'use' to the recipient.

'The great majority of known erotic asphyxial deaths are male; among all known cases in Ontario and Alberta from 1974 to 1987, only 1 out of 117 cases was female.' Wikipedia R Blanchard

Also, it's very much sold as a sexual pleasure for the women/girls, but back in the 90s, I definitely read that the reflex reaction to strangulation is..frankly...a vaginal clenching side-effect for the oh-so-considerate lover

@NiceGerbil

Sawdust your reply does not relate to the comment you are replying to at all.

NiceGerbil Then for the avoidance of doubt, to the PP's second point (which was):

I believe he supports the current de facto situation which is that women are deemed to have consented to anything - even their own death - unless they ( or someone else ) can prove otherwise

I do not support a situation where women are deemed to consented to their own death unless it can be proved otherwise. In fact, I have never heard or seen anybody support that situation.

I do go further too, to say it is NOT the current de facto situation as a defence to the charge of murder. Those that think it is are wrong.

@PattiPritell

Stephen Milligan died in 1994!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I rest my case.

What's your point? Because he died a while ago it doesn't count? Don't be absurd. And as I pointed out there are many layers to sex games, choking is just one of them. There have been more male deaths since, I used him as an example because I don't have the time or the inclination to do your research for you. You'd rather sit there thinking it just affects women than actual have a look.

Do not make this into some crime against women. Women ASK to be choked during sex and they know the risks that presents. If one guy refuses the next one might not. Do not make this into some sort of crime against women because that's just ridiculous and yet another manifestation of this bizarre pseudo feminism that's kicking around just now.

There have been more male deaths since,

I'll have to take your word for it because if you search you just get porn videos of women being strangled during sex which have been viewed millions of times - I'll give that a miss thanks.

Wow, this thread took a turn.

If we don't like being beaten and throttled during sex we're a bunch of frigid prudes?

And if you get killed in the act well, accidents happen, whats a guy to do?

Maybe we need to teach kids that porn isn't real life, it can be damaging and when they grow up they can enjoy sex without it.

Their names were Hope Barden and Natalie Connolly and they deserved better.

I hear you @TheWeeDonkey. Some of the posters on this thread have further eroded my faith in humanity

Strangulation is a new porn-fed phenomenon*. There are ample articles backing that up on the We Cant Consent To This site.
It's the the kink of a minority, mainstreamed by porn into the nascent sex lives of seemingly rudderless teen girls and dense, dense teen boys. 'I thought girls were supposed to cry during sex' one oik was quoted as saying .

*Otherwise, over the decades, that linked study would have found females accidentally asphyxiating themselves during solo masturbation. Did. Not. Happen.

I cannot comprehend the motivation of people who come on threads about women who are dead at the hands of men, with the men getting sentences that are widely seen in society as shockingly short etc.

And tell women these are tragic accidents, women love this sort of stuff (in thread about deaths), most of your friends love all this, the fact that it's invariably woman dead and man says consensual no one to say otherwise is out of line to mention as typical man hating, claim these incidents are used as propaganda (for what?!), Etc etc.

This thread is talking about dead women. Who died at the hands of men. And what often seems to happen.

NC the judge said it couldn't be sure she lacked capacity to consent yet her level of intoxication was at coma/ death level. It was deemed that in that state she could well have insisted that a man push a trigger spray inside her vagina trigger end first. He left her naked battered and bleeding at the bottom of the stairs when he couldn't get it out.

Yep yep sounds like a totally standard evening to me. What a tragic accident.

I have no idea why a thread on MN with a handful of women talking attracts a the attention of multiple people. Determined to do whatever the hell it is any of you want to achieve with this.

Couzens missed a trick.

If he'd said he met her walking. They clicked immediately and she told him a very detailed rape fantasy about being arrested and kidnapped. And he agreed to act it out for her. Then afterwards she was dead and he panicked and disposed of body.

Then all the hooha could have been avoided. Tragic accident. Poor chap panicked. Could happen to anyone (male). 4 years?

@KurtWilde this person couldn’t find more male deaths since, just a whole lot of women killed. But whatever you say, it’s an equal opportunity crime .
www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex

I don't think anyone on this thread has ever questioned that consensual intimate relationships which involve some level of pain or heightened sensation exist. However, the murdered women on this thread were subjected to such levels of violence and in many instances had drunk so much alcohol and/or taken so many drugs that they cannot have been able to give their consent.

Rough sex defences disproportionately involve women as victims rather than men. This asymmetry means that we can't assume that men and women behave the same way during rough sex. It is quite reasonable for women to continue to ask questions why for example the driver of the car which dragged PC Andrew Harper to his death (rightly in my view) received 16 years for manslaughter when people found guilty of manslaughter of a woman during rough sex do not receive such a severe sentence.

Well quite.

And the big question is. For those who have done so.

What is the point you are trying to make? What are you wanting to achieve/ draw attention to?

In this case.

It's one thread with a handful of posters on the Feminism topic (not widely read) on a much larger site predominantly used by women.

The thread is about one case and then a couple more. Where women died at the hands of men who were prosecuted, given the evidence reported judges comments etc, some women found. Inadequate/ contradictory/ incomprehensible etc.

At the moment due to some high profile murders, of women. The topic of VAWG is all over the news. The everard murder in particular has been massively covered by the media etc.

So I'd be really interested to know what the aim is by posters who talk about. Kink shaming, women being judgemental, being duped by propaganda etc?

Can anyone explain why they believe posts like that are necessary/ appropriate given all the factors I mentioned?

And yet another male throttler of women. This time - by luck not judgment - he didn't kill any of them so they've been able to testify against him. 9 years doesn't seem enough tbh for this coercive rapist but it's more than some of the killers have got.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/judge-hails-bravery-of-laughing-rapist-dillon-andersons-victims-wfpmx8g8b?shareToken=92c04eca10ac58219b734177896cde8b