Another woman killed during "rough sex"

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/07/darlington-man-jailed-for-four-years-for-choking-woman-during-sex?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

How do men keep getting away with this?

@nettie434

Same with the rugby player case that I mentioned, tellmewhenthelangshiplandscoz. Whatsapp messages from the defendants mentioning 'slags' and similar phrases were inadmissible. Victim knicker style was not.

Explicit There were no mitigating factors in the Naomi Connelly case. Nobody ever ever ever could have willingly consented to a bottle of cleaning fluid being poured into their vagina.

There were no mitigating factors in the Naomi Connelly case. Nobody ever ever ever could have willingly consented to a bottle of cleaning fluid being poured into their vagina.

The accounts of that case get worse with every telling.

(it's Natalie Connolly btw)

(it's Natalie Connolly btw)

So it was. I feel bad because I tried to rely on my memory.

The Natalie Connolly case was horrific, I feel sick even thinking about it. She had a little girl too. And that animal walks among us today, 4 years wasn't it. Hard to imagine what was so mitigating.

It should be for the man to prove she consented. Not assume she did. Hope there’s an appeal

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

The Natalie Connolly case was horrific, I feel sick even thinking about it. She had a little girl too. And that animal walks among us today, 4 years wasn't it. Hard to imagine what was so mitigating.

There is a lot of misinformation put out about that particular case. Designed to get the visceral reaction you have described no doubt - Interesting to see how the 'disinformation' gets worse and worse almost with every telling.

See above comment re 'bottle of cleaning fluid poured into the vagina' for example - where does that originate from and should we care about why such propaganda is being churned out. I see you now having him down as an 'animal'.

The most accurate account available of the crime would be from the Court itself. Here is a link to the sentencing remarks - Sentencing Remarks Broadhurst

You question the accuracy of my comments about the cleaning fluid, sawdustformypony. I'll just direct you to a quote from the very document you provided a link to:

On your account, after beating her, Natalie’s requests became more extreme. She asked you to insert a bottle of spray carpet cleaner into her vagina, as a sexual stimulant. This was a large object with a trigger. It became lodged in her vagina and you could not get it out. You went to get a bottle of lubricant to try and remove it. The pathological evidence was that the bottle caused lacerations to her vagina resulting in arterial and venous haemorrhage.

There is no need for anybody to exaggerate the extent of anyone's injuries. The reality is quite horrific enough.

Yes, I've read it several times. Quite what they were both getting into was quite bizarre - both were very drunk and drugged up (fatally so in Natalie's case) and possibly quite stupid, but it still falls a long way short of pouring a bottle of cleaning fluid into the vagina. The bottle gets stuck and he injures her when dislodging it back out again, causing an injury to an artery. Obviously that would have bled to some extent - but there was no mention of blood loss being a major contribution towards her death, which I think there would be, had it been the case. I dare say that any blood loss, with the combination of her other non-fatal injuries, her level of drugs/alcohol and being left on the floor (possibly in a cold room overnight) all contributed to her death. But that and his failure to call for medical help was the reason he was convicted of negligent manslaughter and received a 4 year custodial sentence.

I'd be interesting to know where you read that he had poured a bottle of cleaning fluid into her vagina ?

I don't remember where I read it. There was a huge amount of coverage at the time. If anything, the sentencing statement is even more harrowing than any media coverage I read at the time.

This discussion is becoming unnecessarily detailed in my opinion. For me, the purpose of this thread is about the principle that the 'rough sex' defence continues to be used even though we were told that it legislative changes would outlaw it.

Pouring cleaning fluid into her was a minimisation of what he did to her. Domestic cleaning fluid would not have caused the arterial injuries, lacerations etc that the entire bottle did.

And quite frankly who is to say what Natalie agreed to, she is not here to defend herself. The level of intoxication suggests she was unconscious. So we take the word of the murderer? She was incredibly drunk, far too drunk to consent to any sexual activity. Leaving a person to die in a pool of their own blood from injuries you caused is not negligence. This was rape and murder. And the man who did it got 4 years in prison. Yes he is an animal, and should not be free to walk our streets.

I and many other women feel exactly the same way about our judiciary as we do about the police - they are not here for us. Well except to ensure we pay the same amount of tax to fund their wages that the penis people pay. That's the only equality we have.

I and many other women feel exactly the same way about our judiciary as we do about the police - they are not here for us.

I feel so relieved you wrote that, Ohsugarhoneyicetea. Karen Ingala Smith's Femicide Census lists 117 UK women who were killed by men (or where a man was the principal suspect) in 2019. Every time a woman is killed whose attacker is not perceived to have received a sentence commensurate with the crime erodes women's faith in the justice system.

@nettie434

I and many other women feel exactly the same way about our judiciary as we do about the police - they are not here for us.

I feel so relieved you wrote that, Ohsugarhoneyicetea. Karen Ingala Smith's Femicide Census lists 117 UK women who were killed by men (or where a man was the principal suspect) in 2019. Every time a woman is killed whose attacker is not perceived to have received a sentence commensurate with the crime erodes women's faith in the justice system.

This.

Huh?

He stuck it inside her vagina.

Pulling it out was what caused a huge internal injury.

Due to the drugs drink etc iirc they could not say 100% that the blood loss from him doing that was the cause of death.

The other massive problem with this case is that it was accepted she was incapacitated due to drink and drugs. Sexual activity with an incapacitated person is illegal. But it gets worse.

Despite the fact it was accepted she was incapacitated at the time. She somehow also consented to the act that damaged her so badly.

Appalling.

Sticking a bottle of cleaning fluid up her. The fact that the trigger is mentioned in all the accounts I've read presumably means that end up. Which also makes sense with the nature of the injuries.

Is bad enough surely.

I'd say pouring is awful but intersertion is off the scale.

The assertion that saying pouring is to induce a Visceral reaction. When what happened was WORSE. that doesn't make sense.

@ErrolTheDragon

There's something in this that needs publicising, I think.

The pathologist said her injuries “do not suggest either very prolonged or very forceful strangulation or strangulation which was actively resisted”.

What this implies is that even short, not very forceful, 'consensual' strangulation can be fatal. Doesn't matter if you've done it before, it can be fatal.
The bloke doesn't really know what the hell he did this time because he was extremely drunk but if we take that forensic assessment as being accurate then it's something people tempted to try these acts need to be crystal clear on. I can't imagine how anyone knowing that possibility would want to risk doing it to another person, and if they do then they're knowingly acting recklessly.

Not prolonged?? There was hardly any point to him continuing to strangle her after having already strangled her to death was there, where would be the fun in that?? Do they really get leniency points for having strangled women quickly?!

Saying that the comments about this man being dangerous an animal etc.

Are due to propaganda being churned out.

I think that's a strong view and it's fair to ask. Churned out by who, and with what aim?

@sawdustformypony where are you coming from? How are the bare facts not quite visceral enough, no one is exaggerating? (Fully agree with others that ‘pouring’ is rather minimising unless the fluid is a corrosive acid). A little girl being motherless does add to the tragedy.
I think there should be a new crime category where strangled to death during sex is by definition premeditated murder. Every man should know that this is the risk when you put your hands on a woman’s neck.

Oh blimey just rereading.

'Quite what they were both getting into was quite bizarre - both were very drunk and drugged up (fatally so in Natalie's case) and possibly quite stupid'.

You believe that it was a discussed thing to do that they both wanted. She consented.

They were both quite 'stupid'.

Having a bottle of cleaning fluid pushed into your vagina trigger first is not as horrifying as having the fluid poured in. Well I know which I think is way worse.

You seem to be of the view that a person in a sexual encounter , a consensual one. Has NO responsibility to consider whether it's dangerous?

Interesting.

I mean in this case she was legally too wasted to consent so how they decided she did is beyond me.

I think @sawdustformypony has his own agenda to push here. IIRC he has posted elsewhere criticising We Can’t Consent to This.

I believe he supports the current de facto situation which is that women are deemed to have consented to anything - even their own death - unless they ( or someone else ) can prove otherwise.

@Mammyloveswine I had read of Natalie's case but in my naive mind, while still being unimaginably horrific, I was imaging a carpet cleaner bottle shaped like a bottle of furniture polish. Knowing it was the trigger type. I just cannot...there are no words. He is evil incarnate.

This all terrifies me as someone who in the next few years might consider dating again.

I want nice, kind, pleasurable sex. I don't want anyone who thinks that shoving a trigger bottle of cleaning fluid inside me is in any way a turn on for either of us, or wants to choke me or hurt me or leave me bruised.

I mean. Jesus Christ. Do these men - the ones talking about it, not the bastards doing it - not even think about that? Vaginas aren't unlike mouths, how would they like a bottle of Mr Muscle shoved down their throat trigger end first, then dragged out? Do they think that would be pleasurable? Do they think that might kill them?

Anna Reed was strangled to death by her boyfriend in Switzerland. He tried the same BS defence of a sex game gone wrong. This was struck down by the judge for the nonsense it clearly is in every single case.

[quote blairresignationjam]@Mammyloveswine I had read of Natalie's case but in my naive mind, while still being unimaginably horrific, I was imaging a carpet cleaner bottle shaped like a bottle of furniture polish. Knowing it was the trigger type. I just cannot...there are no words. He is evil incarnate.[/quote]
It is horrific isn't it? The sentencing remarks are disgusting and I still can't quite believe them!

I understand the law but I definitely do not think that John Broadhurst was simply negligent!!

And we can't consent to this is the voice of women who no longer have one..

@sawdustformypony is a man I see.. how the hell he can dare to even try to defend these bastards I just cannot fathom!!

sawdustformypony for my pony pops up without fail every time there is a thread about strangulation. Maybe he is connected to legal work, he loves to argue the fine points of the law and put women in their place in that. Maybe he makes lots of money defending these men. Or maybe he quite likes a bit of strangling during sex and doesn't like seeing his fetish criticised.

I'm not really interested either way. I'm interested in seeing a law that will defend women and treat this as the crime it obviously is.

If you are a woman who likes throttling as a part of sex SURELY a friend or close family member might have commented occasionally on the bruises you are carrying on your neck - or questioned the wearing of a scarf on a warm day. It's not rocket science. And then spoken about the presence of them to the police when asked.