Another woman killed during "rough sex"

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/07/darlington-man-jailed-for-four-years-for-choking-woman-during-sex?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

How do men keep getting away with this?

For men restricting..? Oxygen? So prevention of breathing when about to orgasm. Has been practiced for ages. Auto erotic asphyxiation being well known due to occasional deaths of men in the public eye. Really tragic.

Until it started in porn I am pretty certain that it was not a known thing for women. I mean people like all sorts. So not saying never. But. Not a widely known thing like for men.

Strangulation meanwhile has always been a common way men killed women.

Given those things.

This sudden increase in women dying from strangulation during sex. I'd bet that's increased a lot over the last decade or so.

Given men most definitely have always enjoyed restricting breathing to enhance orgasm. In numbers large enough to mean it's pretty well known.

Where are all the men dying during sex? Why is it invariably the women who (apparently) like this. And not the men asking women to do it?

I mean common sense says not what it's presented as.

The men - and boys - who die of it generally die alone and unrescued in masturbatory contexts. There's little doubt what went on and what went wrong. See the opening chapter of Tim Winton's novel 'Breath' for a tragic rendition. I recommend the entire novel though it's a gruelling read in places.

By definition, the dead women have no voice; no chance to deny the narrative that they consented, or instigated or loved the practice. By definition, there are no witnesses to the act. The narrative is under the killer's control.

This is what the law needs to address but I don't know how.

@IM0GEN

I think *@sawdustformypony* has his own agenda to push here. IIRC he has posted elsewhere criticising We Can’t Consent to This.

I believe he supports the current de facto situation which is that women are deemed to have consented to anything - even their own death - unless they ( or someone else ) can prove otherwise.

I do criticise WCCTT, because they because they are not telling the truth.

There is 'no consent to death' defense and if there were, I certainly wouldn't support it, in these circumstances. (possibly for assisted dying - but that's a completely different matter).

The defence you (in general) seem to want to get rid of, is that of 'intention' - therefore taking away the difference between murder and manslaughter.

@CBUK2K

Not very scientific I know but more then half of the partners (female) that I've been in relationships with have had some interest in consensual kink. It doesn't do a lot for me but you might be surprised how many of your female friends are quite insistent on being tied up or choked.

If two adults genuinely agree (without coercion) to engage in a sex act which tragically results in injury or worse I don't see why this would be treated as murder.

Would you say the same if a couple decided to sail round the world or drive a rally car and one was killed?

Ideally you would have evidence that this was entirely consensual.

Read the Natalie Connolly sentencing remarks.., she was so Intoxicated she could not have consented...

Hey "partner" was not horrified when he awoke..he described her as "dead as a donut". He served just 20 months in prison.,, it is disgusting!!!

Not very scientific I know but more then half of the partners (female) that I've been in relationships with have had some interest in consensual kink. It doesn't do a lot for me but you might be surprised how many of your female friends are quite insistent on being tied up or choked.

Also not very scientific but I don't know any female who would consent or welcome this.

Anyway, as the "choker" - the person with an "insistent" partner you have two choices: You could say "It doesn't do a lot for me and I wouldn't want to take the risk of doing you harm" or you could go ahead and take that risk, in the full knowledge that if you judge it wrong and kill her you will be convicted (I'll let @sawdustformypony argue the technicalities re murder or manslaughter) of killing your partner and imo should expect to do significant time for killing your partner.

Don't be negligent. Don't take the risk. It's quite easy. Like choosing not to drink and drive. Lots of people take that risk and drive home safely doing neither themselves or any other road users any harm. But if they are in a fatal accident they can expect to be convicted of various road and traffic offences and in some cases end up with quite a hefty sentence depending on the circumstances.

Choose to make good choices.

Sawdust your reply does not relate to the comment you are replying to at all.

No loads and loads of women aren't into being tied up violated and throttled.

Real life isn't porn.

Hello love the kids are downstairs. Let's take an hour or so to get me trussed up and then give me a good strangling.

@NiceGerbil

No loads and loads of women aren't into being tied up violated and throttled.

Real life isn't porn.

There are plenty of women who like choking or what not, don't think anyone is arguing that's the norm

But how many women do or done is irrelevant. People who don't like it aren't some morally superior beings- and even if one does like being tied up, nobody should be throttled and killed

Not sure if this is clear, but people's preferences are irrelevant. Even if a woman lives BDSM for example, that's different to actually killing someone.

Do you believe that extra safety warnings should be delivered to all the elderly population. The large numbers of women who enjoy this must be at more risk? Aim at 75 and older maybe?

And those with certain pre existing conditions.

You should look into it. Start a campaign maybe.

You wouldn't want anyone hurt I'm sure.

Oops hurt is fine I imagine. Dead then.

' It doesn't do a lot for me but you might be surprised how many of your female friends are quite insistent on being tied up or choked.'

That implies it's not niche, surely.

It implies it's pretty common.

@CBUK2K

Not very scientific I know but more then half of the partners (female) that I've been in relationships with have had some interest in consensual kink. It doesn't do a lot for me but you might be surprised how many of your female friends are quite insistent on being tied up or choked.

If two adults genuinely agree (without coercion) to engage in a sex act which tragically results in injury or worse I don't see why this would be treated as murder.

Would you say the same if a couple decided to sail round the world or drive a rally car and one was killed?

Ideally you would have evidence that this was entirely consensual.

There’s quite a big difference between a spot of light bondage with an easily undone knot and an absolutely appallingly dangerous practice that has led repeatedly to death. I would question the judgement or motives of any man that agreed to choke his partner in bed no matter how much they begged for it. I can believe many of your partners have been into consensual kink. But if half have been into choking I would be very surprised.

I know many men and women who are turned on by choking during sex, I was married to one for starters. I think you'll find it's far more common than you imagine. If it's consensual I don't see how it can be construed as murder. Accidental death, yes, but not murder. People who partake in this form of kink don't set out to murder the person they're having sex with.

*Not very scientific I know but more then half of the partners (female) that I've been in relationships with have had some interest in consensual kink. It doesn't do a lot for me but you might be surprised how many of your female friends are quite insistent on being tied up or choked.
*
As I said if both parties consent to doing dangerous things then it's not murder it's gross stupidity.

Gross stupidity where one party ends up dead and the other party has caused that death.

Still if you are stupid enough to join in don't whinge if the law takes a less lenient view of your stupidity.

Though I'd rather see a defence of stupidity than "she loved it". At least we can be sure the whole truth is being told where someone owns up to being stupid.

4 years for murder. Wow, just wow 😕

Natalie Connolly’s family - I am so sorry that this happened to your daughter and that anyone would ever question if it was possible for someone to consent to this kind of treatment. Rest in peace Natalie. Your killer was an evil man.

I don’t mean to neglect the other women listed on this thread. Each and every one of them should have been loved and cared for, every say of their lives. I am so very very sorry. There are no words.

Can’t even type now (should be day of their lives) but I am sure you all get the message.