DH planning on doing something terrible this weekend. Help! Please!

[NeedyW]

Have posted about my dh's depression before (under this name, but am name changer). This week has been really bad.

He's on Citalopram 40mg and this week he lost his tablets. He's terrified about the doctor finding out how incompetent he is so won't ask for another prescription and is instead taking pills from a spare packet of my old ADs (Citalpram 20mg). I've pointed out that this might mean he's getting different doses and might not work as well, but he keeps doing it.

This week he has been in a terrible state. Got really angry with me one night for nothing. I told him I couldn't cope with his behaviour anymore. Since then he's been so nervy and anxious.

I'll finally get to the point. I found a list on the computer, I know I shouldn't have read it, but I needed to know what was going on in his head. I wonder if he wrote it there for me to find it. It starts with "Do not read this if you are not me".

It's a list of all his anxieties over various dates. How worthless he feels, how terrible he is etc.

There's an entry from earlier this week that is really scary. Lists all about how awful he has been to me, how I'm going to leave him, how he is starting to believe that he really is a bad person. Then there's this really long bit about how he is planning to cut off his toe on Friday night! It plans what he'll need (a knife, hammer, bandages, something to bite on so he won't scream etc) how he'll do it, what he'll say to work (dropped a knife) - no mention of what he'll say to me. It says that this is the only solution. To put all his "badness" into his toe and then get rid of it. He says he can't tell anybody why he's really doing it because they'll think he's crazy, and he's not (?).

what should I do?

He hasn't had any counselling for a while because the woman he was seeing has retired and he's waiting to be reassigned (nothing since beginning of June).

Should I get the authorities involved? Should I tell him I know?

I am so angry with him for how he has treated me, I know he cannot see how doing this would hurt anyone but himself, which makes me even more angry. This is not the man I married, I know he's ill, but he is completely the opposite to how he used to be. He has hurt me so much in the last couple of months - blamed me for everything, humiliated me in front of friends, scared me, etc.

Please help.

I'm going to go for a walk now, to clear my head. Will check in on this later.

TIA

Dh definitely doesn't have cleaning problems, he's at the other end of the spectrum. He's never been depressed before. He was always such an optimist - I was the pessimist.

Now he cries over anything. He's so anxious and nervous that it's like living with a panicy chihuahua (not claiming to have spelled that right).

When I try to talk to him his first reaction is panic, followed by denial, then accusations (always with that smug arrogant look that makes me hate him), then apologies, always finished off with a big round of "not changing at all" and "doing it again tomorrow".

I've been understanding, I've been caring, I've been his personal emotional punch-bag, I've been firm, I've been angry, I've threatened to leave, I've explained everything in every way I know how and he says he understands and will change and makes promises and cries and apologies and... does it all again tomorrow

Thanks Sunnygirl, I need to get motivated enough to do something for me.

I feel so tired, and physically sick - but I'm not ill.

Today is a very bad day.

If he is truly useless in practical matters, plus you're sick of the sight of him, it might be better for all of you if he moved out for a bit. Is there a bachelor mate he can stay with (that's what DP did), or family member?

You are strong because you are still here. I know you feel terrible but you are keeping it going for yourself and your DCs. That's why you need to look after yourself and keep the fallout of this at arm's length.

Snow, I think that would help me enormously. But I don't think he would do it. He only has one friend who knows about his depression (and even then it's a down-played version of the truth) and he lives a long way away. DH would hate for anyone to find out that he was having problems at home, particularly as the only friends he has here are work colleagues. No family nearby.

Does anyone know how I can stop being so angry with him. I wish I could let all this wash over me, the way I was. Now, everything he does or says hurts and I can't let it go.

Needy - is it possible that you have become depressed? The tired, physically sick, unable to motivate yourself to care for yourself does sound like depression to me - which makes talking to the gp more important - and means that he'd be able to do more to help you. Perhaps a short course of antidepressants might help you cope in the short term whilst your dh sorts himself out?

I hope I haven't upset you by saying this - my heart goes out to you.

Needy- i think you need to tell him to go back on the AD's or he is going to have to move out.
I did this with dh the second time he went on them, i realy couldn't cope with the stress he was putting on me and dd, we went to the GP the next day and he was put back on them and offered counciling (which has helped).

Dh was like your DH is now 2 years ago, it was the worst 6 months but he got through it and is now doing well, the depression is still there but he has more control over it.

I think counciling and AD's need to be used together, AD's will make him feel happier but not fix the problems that cause his depression.

Get him back on the AD's and give him alot of space, give yourself space, make time for you away from him until the AD's start to work.

He says he has to start on 20mg and then might consider going up to 40mg again.

Is it right that he can't go straight onto the higher dose? He says that's what the dr said.

I think I'm going to have to start checking up on him and making sure he's taking them. I'm sick of having an extra child to look after and no partner.

Yes, it has crossed my mind that I might be depressed. But for now I think I'm just sad due to circumstances. This has all just happened. I have just chosen my family over my career (which is a decision I hated having to make but I felt it was the right decision - until I found out why family life needed my attention and that it was self-induced), I have just found out that my husband has been lying to me (and if there's one thing I need in a relationship above all else it is honesty), I've just had to re-think the next year of my life.

If this lingers I will get help (although I'll be asking you lot for advice first ) but for now I think this is normal sadness and grieving the life I had all planned out IYSWIM

You need to explain to him very clearly that you are not his mother, and take that on board yourself. I agree, ask him to resume treatment properly and take responsibility, or else move out - even if that means someone finding out - because otherwise you are bearing it all. Do not be a mother to him. Explain to him extremely clearly that his illness, even if he denies it, is making life impossible for you and DCs - and he will either have to take it seriously or else help you by giving you a break. If he denies it, point to his uselessness and the contrast with when he was on ADs/well. Do not give up. Do not accept that he is fine. You have the truth on your side and you will prevail.

And you are angry for very good reasons - because of what he is putting you through. Even if he can't help being ill, maintaining a basic level of decency and respect for you is something you must insist on. You won't sort out the anger by trying to suppress it or wish it away. Tell him you are angry and tell the counsellor - whether you go with him or on your own.

Thank you Snow (and everyone else who has replied, you're all so lovely).

I really needed that spelled out to me. I think he was beginning to convince me that I was at least partially responsible for the mess we are in. And I'm not! Oh God, even now I am struggling not to add the words "am I?" to that sentence.

He has caused all this, hasn't he? (Yes, I do need validation ) His actions have brought all of this about, not mine. I have tried, haven't I?

This isn't my fault is it? I really hope the answer to that one isn't a yes.

Dh started on 20mg i think, (i will ask him when he gets home).

Get him a pill box (with days of the week on), leeve it by the kettle or somewhere where he won't miss it each day.

Hang in there, it will get better as long as he sticks to it.

That's a good idea Marne, I'll order one now. Then he'll feel like I care and I'll feel safer that he's taking them.

I think that the dr would prob advice starting on the lower dose and then consider upping it, as dh says -- but also that the dr could after discussion decide it was ok to start on the higher dose at once, if the need was great and the AD was one he had used before without too severe side-effects.

I'm really sorry you are going through all this still and that you feel let down. Snowleopard has such very good advice that I don't want to say much more except to give you my best wishes.

read through some of your posts needyw, im so sorry you are going through this right now

Just wanted to say that i suffer from depresion im on the same tablets as your dh but im on 60mg. i started on them in 2004 first on 10, then 20, then 40 and now 60.

i got very depressed when ds1 at the time was 3 and had just been diagnosed with ASD, it abslutely shattered my world I started having all these horrible things going through my head, how will ds cope when i die, if i die and my parents die how will ds then cope, Dh wouldnt be able to cope.

I was throwing up with it all, scared to go out of the house wouldnt talk to anyone except play and love ds, i think i didnt bath or shower for about 3 weeks

i find the change in the season winter very hard as it gets so dark and leaves and plants and all greenery is just dieing, so in the winter months my doctor puts me up to 60mg wich does seem to help a little

Some times my dh can be horrid with me and says he cant take much more wich then makes me feel even more depressed. The tablets makes me feel very sleepy and tired a lot.
But also Depression makes you feel tired.

Maybe he needs his medication uping? i know its hard but do try to be a little more understanding for him, as i know you proberbly feel the weight of the world on you right now, i can guarentee your dh is proberbly feeling 3 times as bad.

Sotty if ive waffled on

big hugs to you and your family spiceymama xx

It's not your fault.

The illness is not his fault either, but taking responsibility for his treatment and committing to recovery is for him to do. Not you.

Your job is to look after yourself.

Did you get the book I recommended? (scroll down, I'm sure I banged on about it at length )

Threadworrm, thank you for offering your support - Snow is rather good isn't she?

SM, I know it's hard coping with depression, I know it's miserable and isolating and horrible. I do. I hope things get better for you, thank you for your kind words. I'm so angry with him because he was better (on meds), he was a part of the family again, he was my dh again, and he took that all away because his masculine pride said he didn't need pills. He lied and he punished me for it, and I didn't even know it was happening. I was worried that he was having a real breakdown, but it was just his need to prove himself a man. He refers to it as "his experiment" although it was me who had to drag him to the dr and hide all the knives and watch him and cry in secret so he wouldn't feel bad the last time. Sorry, now I'm waffling. It's tough on both sides, it's isolating on both sides, it's exhausting on both sides. It's just not fair!

It's on order now. So much for thinking I could do without it.

you see i did say id read through some of your posts, missed that bit where he had stopped taking them
(spiceymama makes mental note to read all of OPs posts)

Right if i was you i would frog march him back to his dr or the doctor he is seeing about his depression, and tell them everything, if he wont then phone them and see them anf you need to tell them whats going on.

I have led a rather coloufull life and im only 28! before ds got diagnosed with ASD, sd was abot 1 1/2 at the time Dh lost his job and started taking on day jobs and night jobs to get us more money as it was coming upto christmas. Dh suffered from at first sleep deprevation, witch then turned into a mental breack down.
Turned out Dh was hearing voices, it had been going on for about 2 months before i found out how deep and serious it was, i foind letters in his pocket that he had written down that the voices were telling him

It had things on it that i was cheating on him(i wasnt) the house was bugged someone was out to get him we were allways being followed some one was hiding under the bath panel, there was a camera in the kitchen light so he took it apart, the list is endless.
He got help and was put on medication and stopped his jobs.

He took all this badly and lost all confidence in him self, as a husband and as a father.
After 6 months a realative got him work with them and dh felt like a man again being able to bring home the monry and he was happy and ok as he was on his medication.

But after a couple of months he was acting very starnge and yes he had stopped his tablets so me and ds had to go through all of this again
I phoned his doctor with out him knowing and told them everything he sent dh a letter asking for him to come for a checkup, the dr got everything out of dh and gave him atalking to he was then back on them and now 6 years later is completely of them with the dr help

So i know how angry you must feel, men are very pig headed and think that by taking help doesnt make them man enough

spiceymama x

Thanks Spicey. Yes they are definitely pig-headed

Poor you, that sounds very scary for you all. It's just so frustrating isn't it? When you know they're better because they're on the ADs but they think they're better in general. I just wish they could keep their testosterone out of it!

(Oh and we're all guilty of not reading all the posts every time, you're more than forgiven )

(can I just slightly hijack)

Are escitalopram the same as citalopram or is there a slight different. My gp has said dosage cannot be higher than 20mg on escitalopram

According to Wiki they are different, Lovemyshoes, although both developed by the same company and have similar processes/origins.

Thank you needyw, hope things improve very very soon .

yes it was very scary as i believe in the paranormal and at first dh said they were ghosts and of course i belived him so much so we left the house at 2 in the morning and to add to it it was really really foggy, we got a taxi to my moms and dads as he thought it was ghosts

I can now look back and laugh about it finally!
As ds was only 1 1/2 he had no idea what was going on, dont know how old you dc are but i hope they are ok

Would it be worth spending some time with dh on your own and trying to really talk to him?Or is it a case you dont know how he will react?

What i would deffo say though is you need to contact his dr inform them whats been going on, and most importantly take care of your self as this will run you down aswell

Thanks Spicey.

Isn't it strange the surreal things you find yourself coping with? I remember sitting in the doctor's surgery while my husband calmly explained that all of his problems could be solved by cutting off his toe. I keep saying that this would all be hilarious if only it wasn't actually happening to me.

I find it difficult to be alone with him. A typical pattern goes along the lines of:-

I start talking - he looks sullen
I keep talking - he still says nothing
I start to get frustrated and ask for answers - he says nothing
I begin to get cross with his inability to communicate - he starts denying everything/blames me/apologises but does nothing while glaring at me
I cry - He walks away
I ask why he's going - he says I say he never does anything so he's going to do the washing up or some other trivial bit of housework
I cry some more - he goes downstairs and doesn't come back for hours (housework usually not done)

Last night he finally moved all the enormous blocks of wood he had piled in front of the radiator (too heavy for me to move) so that I could have some heat in the bedroom at last. It took him two hours, within 2 metres of each other, and he never spoke to me once. He will later cite that as an example of how he is doing things to save our marriage

And I can't say "But that's not it!" because it is, I do need him to do what I ask him to, but it's certainly not all of it.

I need him to be able to communicate with me, to find a way to talk to me without him coming defensive or running away.

Would it be unreasonable to give him a list along the lines of:-

I need you to do tasks when you are asked to or as soon as it is possible to do so.

I need you to do routine things without being asked to and at the right times for the children and me, rather than when you feel like it.

I need you to accept what I am saying without getting defensive - it is not a personal attack upon you as a man, it is an attack on the illness that has a hold on you and affects your actions.

I need you to accept that you do still have depression. It has not gone away, your behaviour is not that of a well man and it is unfair on both myself and the children.

I need you to act now; there is no point in planning something nice to do next week if you leave me to cry today. Do plan the nice things, but it's the everyday, little things that need dealing with first and constantly.

I need to feel valued and appreciated for everything I have done and am still doing to hold this family together.

There are so many. I think this might need to be more for me than him.

Would it be unfair to give him that? Or would it help straighten things out. It's all about me

I do feel stronger today. Thank you to everyone who replied yesterday I was having a self-pitying day.

hi needy
It certainly not unsual for people to stop taking their meds, once you feel 'normal' again you think you don't need them. Again not unusal to start from the beginning with meds dose.

Can't really advise on whether you should give him the list of what you want to change, could this be a step too far for him right now? But writting them down for you would help. Have you sorted out someone to talk to who understands what its like to be in this position, lots of people ahve suggested people you could contact. At least that way it gives you 'permission' to feel like this cause I am certain that is 'normal' too. x